Kingdom Hearts: Darkness of Light

[Zero251]

.... Or we could harass/troll/bug/annoy/irritate him to no end. Whatever the big man wants. XD

[trunks2585]

See that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. "No one payed me, I don't owe you anything."

No you don't, but that doesn't change the fact that you got people's hopes up and then bailed.

And personally I think you have to be feeling a bit guilty to use that lame excuse as a defense instead of just going, "yeah I did, sorry about that."

No I don't expect anyone to finish their projects, but when they die I expect something other than some self justifying response. In the end, and excuse is still an excuse.

Nope, no guilt. That is your own feeling of guilt and failure that you are extending to others, believing they must be drawing the same emotional conclusion as yourself. In reality, you are just failing to understand that the sharing of the ideas, code and sprites is in and of itself something to celebrate.

You're not seriously trying to get inside my head are you? I admit my post was speculation, but I hope you're not serious about me feeling guilt. How can I feel guilt on a project I didn't work on? Yes I did think you'd be feeling guilt, because if i worked on something by myself, and got people excited for it, and then dropped it, I'd feel a little bit bad about it. Yes I'd move on, but I'd still feel a little guilty for doing it, but hey maybe I just have higher standards.

Yeah it's nice you're sharing this stuff, but to start something, do some updates, and then drop it and go 'you should be glad i shared this with you all' is to be blunt, arrogant. More so it will shoot your reputation to shit if you keep doing it. So far you've only cancelled two projects, and then you've redone and redone the hell out of your main game (which by the way, could you have picked a more weeaboo name for it?). For your sake I hope you don't bail out on any more projects.

If you don't feel at least a little bit bad for letting people down with this project, then you have no conscious to speak of.

Also, remember this is me we are talking about. I'm not going to be nice and a kiss ass. If I was a mod I'd probably hate this whole forum because god only knows what kinds of shit they have to put up with. I hate how many people came here begging for us to make a game for them, I hate the mindless posts I see from people that you know damn well are lying about their ages and have no business being here. I have to bitch at Ren at least once every 3 months it seems like.

And I sure as hell am not gonna pat you on the ass for giving up.

Edit: WHY THE FUCK AM I ARGUING WITH YOU!?

Seriously my posts were directed to Zeus and I forget whoever else, how the hell did I end up bitching at you now? You even said you're sorry when you cancelled the project.

[Lucky777]

Oh, so your point was that you prefer the bedside manner displayed by a "Sorry 'bout disappointing you" over the bedside manner displayed by "NOT WORKING ON THIS ANYMORE, FUCK YOU GUYS"?

...

Well that's only fair, but that has more to do with politeness than some imaginary obligation. As far as it goes, though, I'd say I'm in agreement with ya on that, Trunks.

[trunks2585]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation

I'll admit what one person considers and obligation, another may not. I'd just like to point out that getting paid or not does not determine if something is an obligation.

[Lucky777]

Getting paid is one of the things that determines the existence of a legal (contractual) obligation. That's an objective reality, as opposed to a subjective consideration.

I'll have a look at the Wiki, though, because it wouldn't be the first time I've missed out on one or more meanings of a given word.

Or rather, I'll have a look at the dictionary, since I'd far prefer to trust that over a wiki, especially without sources. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Obligation

I suppose you might be thinking of a moral obligation.

The reason I don't consider those "obligations" that one can be "Liberated from" is that moral codes, by their very nature, are nothing but collections of opinions.
They have no force, and little value except to the ones who hold them. You're "free" from them as soon as you shrug them off.
It does seem that you may not have mis-used the word, though. The question is perhaps WHICH "moral obligation" you thought an unpaid hobbyist might be under.

[Aliaga]

*RIOTS*

Nah, we understand. Thanks for the neat stuff so far, man. And your Samus stuff is still... very nice.

[trunks2585]

Getting paid is one of the things that determines the existence of a legal (contractual) obligation. That's an objective reality, as opposed to a subjective consideration.

I'll have a look at the Wiki, though, because it wouldn't be the first time I've missed out on one or more meanings of a given word.

Or rather, I'll have a look at the dictionary, since I'd far prefer to trust that over a wiki, especially without sources. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Obligation

I suppose you might be thinking of a moral obligation.

The reason I don't consider those "obligations" that one can be "Liberated from" is that moral codes, by their very nature, are nothing but collections of opinions.
They have no force, and little value except to the ones who hold them. You're "free" from them as soon as you shrug them off.
It does seem that you may not have mis-used the word, though. The question is perhaps WHICH "moral obligation" you thought an unpaid hobbyist might be under.

Like I said the problem is obligation is something that's very subjective and what one person considers and obligation, another person doesn't, your link is about as hazy as mine is as it says a person may feel obliged to do something out of a sense of duty or out of custom or law. Sense of duty being the key part. I don't know if moral obligation or social obligation would be the correct term, and I don't think we want to split hairs over it. Regardless of what you call it, i was thinking of an obligation to his fans, but again that all depends on how he personally feels.

I'm ready to just agree to disagree on this because it's a very subjective topic by this point.

[Lucky777]

Hmm.

Well ... it's an interesting concept, I guess I'll spend some time mulling it over to take my mind off "sitting in traffic, even though it's way too fucking early to be out of bed" D:

A voluntary, subjective, non-legal obligation, eh?

[Sipher]

Trunks, we get it, it's your time of the month and you feel insulted. No really, this is the fucking internet. Whether or not he gives a "justifying" comment was completely up to him. Gore IS one of the best game creators on the site. Not only did he not conform and use everyone elses backgrounds or sprites. He comes up with his own shit. Dusty's castle? Orginal. Sakyu? Original. Maybe you hold him in higher regards than other artists on this site, so that's why you feel the need to criticize him. (By the way, criticism implies that your know better than the person you are giving it too, so if you have dealt with flash, or you have glimpsed into Gorepetes life, and have a complete understanding about who he is, why he does this, and how, shut the fuck up!) I don't know what crawled up your ass and made you feel like such a king, but real thing is your not. Gore is not responsible for other peoples feelings, ESPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET. Yes, you are lucky you got to see what you got to see, he cancelled it, big fucking whoop. People need to learn that the future isn't set in stone, its quite the opposite actually. Quit fucking thinking every day is going to be sunny and full of fucking joy cause its not. Yes its good to be an optimist, but for fucks sake don't sit around and bitch about the artist. And fucking really?
trunks2585 said: "(which by the way, could you have picked a more weeaboo name for it?)" WTF!? You arrogant fucking prick, its HIS game, for fucks sake, DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO PLEASE YOU!? If you seriously can't come up with something better than picking on a name for being Asian then your IQ level must be seriously lacking in the numeral area. And yes, I know, you're a jackass, you have that stated in your signature. If all you're going to do in creative corner is bitch and complain then get the fuck out.

[GoRepeat]

See that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. "No one payed me, I don't owe you anything."

No you don't, but that doesn't change the fact that you got people's hopes up and then bailed.

And personally I think you have to be feeling a bit guilty to use that lame excuse as a defense instead of just going, "yeah I did, sorry about that."

No I don't expect anyone to finish their projects, but when they die I expect something other than some self justifying response. In the end, and excuse is still an excuse.

Nope, no guilt. That is your own feeling of guilt and failure that you are extending to others, believing they must be drawing the same emotional conclusion as yourself. In reality, you are just failing to understand that the sharing of the ideas, code and sprites is in and of itself something to celebrate.

You're not seriously trying to get inside my head are you? I admit my post was speculation, but I hope you're not serious about me feeling guilt. How can I feel guilt on a project I didn't work on? Yes I did think you'd be feeling guilt, because if i worked on something by myself, and got people excited for it, and then dropped it, I'd feel a little bit bad about it. Yes I'd move on, but I'd still feel a little guilty for doing it, but hey maybe I just have higher standards.

Yeah it's nice you're sharing this stuff, but to start something, do some updates, and then drop it and go 'you should be glad i shared this with you all' is to be blunt, arrogant. More so it will shoot your reputation to shit if you keep doing it. So far you've only cancelled two projects, and then you've redone and redone the hell out of your main game (which by the way, could you have picked a more weeaboo name for it?). For your sake I hope you don't bail out on any more projects.

If you don't feel at least a little bit bad for letting people down with this project, then you have no conscious to speak of.

Also, remember this is me we are talking about. I'm not going to be nice and a kiss ass. If I was a mod I'd probably hate this whole forum because god only knows what kinds of shit they have to put up with. I hate how many people came here begging for us to make a game for them, I hate the mindless posts I see from people that you know damn well are lying about their ages and have no business being here. I have to bitch at Ren at least once every 3 months it seems like.

And I sure as hell am not gonna pat you on the ass for giving up.

Edit: WHY THE FUCK AM I ARGUING WITH YOU!?

Seriously my posts were directed to Zeus and I forget whoever else, how the hell did I end up bitching at you now? You even said you're sorry when you cancelled the project.

We aren't arguing! Just having a discussion! Haha~

The point I was trying to make is that obligation isn't even part of the conversation in my mind. I didn't mean you specifically felt guilty about something, more that if you were me you would feel guilty therefore you believe that I feel guilty - which I don't. Basically, you are bringing the concept of obligation into the discussion then criticizing me for not reaching the same result as you, when I am simply going "what obligation?"

And the concept of "reputation" on a forum where we make pornographic games and animations also strikes me as funny This is all trivial, no need to become so emotionally invested.

[KaTsuO_O]

"And the concept of "reputation" on a forum where we make pornographic games and animations also strikes me as funny This is all trivial, no need to become so emotionally invested."

Thank you!

[Lucky777]

...Well, it IS a pretty weaboo name ...

[Eggplants]

There's also a good number of 'talented' artists that get popular and sometimes arrogant as a result, even to the point that they thing they are beyond critque. *coughjaynaylorcough*

But I do see your point, just remember even the most talented of artists can make silly mistakes that someone else catches. That's half the beauty of getting critque on your work, people can sometimes catch things the artist didn't even notice.

Of course it's easier said than done to finish a game. I just don't think someone should get to fire off a 'well if you want it so bad, you do it' type of response when they quit a project, like that somehow liberates them and they don't have to accept they gave up on their project. Granted Gorepete hasn't done anything of the sort here, and my initial response was to Zeus's comment.

Ah I see what you mean now. I strongly agree with you on that because when I fail to finish a flash I've been making I always feel like shit because I do love pleasing my watchers on HF. I think what's important is to know where to draw the line between a fun little side thing and a full on project because not following a project that's had so much time put into it is a downer but it's probably best to hope for the best and expect the worst when it comes to games either made for shits and giggles or are just way too early in development.

And yeah you're right about criticism too but I guess I'm just a little sour from people picking at my styles. This happened to me allot on the spriters resource and it pissed the shit out of me because those dumb assess were so cocksure that their sprites were so awesome that everyone ells' sprites had to look like theirs otherwise they needed "improvement"(tight pants is not a fucking improvement ). When I take criticism I want to here advise that will make my pictures or sprites look like a better version of what they're trying to be, like her perky tits could look more perky if you did this or her fur will look more like fur if you did this ect. Everything else I tend to look at as an experiment to consider or I get all "fuck you this is my style!"

And to those who say "quit your bitching, trunks" I say come on! Yeah he bitches allot but why is that a bad thing? I sometimes try to bottle my anger for the sake of a peaceful community so I'm incredibly appreciative that we have him here to bring out the healthy bitchiness in the rest of us. After all it's only a bad thing if you look at it that way and I think most of us are mature enough to not hate each other just because of some silly arguments so if you ask me, I think if anything we need MORE trunkses

Guys, guys... how about we just leave the topic here as a little something that aspiring programmers/artists/whatever can pick up as an experiment/something they want to do, stop criticizing Gorepete, and let him go on with his awesome work?

Pfft, that is no fun!

YYYEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

[Mango]

Trunks, we get it, it's your time of the month and you feel insulted. No really, this is the fucking internet. Whether or not he gives a "justifying" comment was completely up to him. Gore IS one of the best game creators on the site. Not only did he not conform and use everyone elses backgrounds or sprites. He comes up with his own shit. Dusty's castle? Orginal. Sakyu? Original. Maybe you hold him in higher regards than other artists on this site, so that's why you feel the need to criticize him. (By the way, criticism implies that your know better than the person you are giving it too, so if you have dealt with flash, or you have glimpsed into Gorepetes life, and have a complete understanding about who he is, why he does this, and how, shut the fuck up!) I don't know what crawled up your ass and made you feel like such a king, but real thing is your not. Gore is not responsible for other peoples feelings, ESPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET. Yes, you are lucky you got to see what you got to see, he cancelled it, big fucking whoop. People need to learn that the future isn't set in stone, its quite the opposite actually. Quit fucking thinking every day is going to be sunny and full of fucking joy cause its not. Yes its good to be an optimist, but for fucks sake don't sit around and bitch about the artist. And fucking really?
trunks2585 said: "(which by the way, could you have picked a more weeaboo name for it?)" WTF!? You arrogant fucking prick, its HIS game, for fucks sake, DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO PLEASE YOU!? If you seriously can't come up with something better than picking on a name for being Asian then your IQ level must be seriously lacking in the numeral area. And yes, I know, you're a jackass, you have that stated in your signature. If all you're going to do in creative corner is bitch and complain then get the fuck out.

You do realize that you're bitching about someone else's bitching, right? Telling someone to "get the fuck out" won't do anything since you don't have the power to keep him out. If anything it'll just make him respond to you so your post was a bit counterproductive. Honestly though, trunks2585 didn't say anything blatantly insulting until other people started getting on his case. It's perfectly natural for someone to to become angry when insulted. Sure, turning the other cheek might have been the more 'respectable' thing to do but how many of us really do that both online and in real life?

As for the post that started this whole argument, when I read it I saw it as a comment meant to be taken as a joke. Saying "games never get finished" in a thread made by a person who has finished a game had to have been a joke. Unless I'm missing something painfully obvious then I think everyone's just taking a joke too seriously. I'm not defending trunks or anything along those lines but I'm just pointing out that cursing at him isn't helping at all.

I will say that the criticism of the game's name was uncalled for though. You insulting his intelligence was also uncalled for. I know that as a new member with only a handful of posts to my name my words don't hold as much weight as those of the older members but can every one at least try to be civil?

[ByHisBillowingBeard]

Blimey.. I've said far less and felt the omniscient wrath of the moderators :'D

Mango's last paragraph was entirely correct.

Trunks' post didn't contain much, if any, malice though. I'm afraid Sipher's came across as rather aggressive.

Criticism is ALWAYS fine. From anybody. No matter the skill. It's obvious if it's petty or childish so if it is, there's no need to respond to it. If it isn't then it's.. well yeah. It may sometimes seem to imply that you know better, when criticising, but never always.

Now, if we're done all done....... I vote for a shaketh of the hands.

[BlueBody]

I'm not sure if what Trunks said is valid, but I feel like hype is something that's blamed on the person who got overly excited over something. If the disappointed party wants the artist to produce something, but he/she decides to work on something else instead, what are you going to do? Force him/her to complete/draw/code a game?

Nothing you can do except complain/argue/"discuss".... So isn't it just a matter of letting yourself get too excited? Or maybe that's why I never get excited over anything in life. Hmm.

[GoRepeat]

I don't know what a weeaboo is lol. I picked Sakyu's name because I thought it looked cool. Kind of like how people will get tribal runes that mean like "taco" but they look badass so who cares?

[Lucky777]

I don't really "know" what it means either, but it's been tossed around in reference to fans of animu, and ESPECIALLY those fans who use japanese terms in english lettering.
Either unofficially or officially called "romanji" and I don't know which because I don't actually know JACK SHIT about japanese.
SUGOI DESU NE

[GoRepeat]

I don't really "know" what it means either, but it's been tossed around in reference to fans of animu, and ESPECIALLY those fans who use japanese terms in english lettering.
Either unofficially or officially called "romanji" and I don't know which because I don't actually know JACK SHIT about japanese.
SUGOI DESU NE

Me neither, I just google translated "Succubus War" and that's what it came up with!

[trunks2585]

Ok Sipher, I was going to say a lot to you, but I won't for a few reasons. Mainly because I think this thread has been derailed enough (no thanks in part to me) and I don't want to give the mods a headache to clean up by further provoking a response from you. Also a few others have already said a few things for me, which I do appreciate, thanks guys, but honestly I think all the middle men and white knights aren't needed.

And that's what really set me off, was the kinda pointless white knighting for Gorepete. Before that all I did was call him a cocktease, and everyone had a good laugh.

But anyways, if you want to continue arguing with me, by all means, PM me, or make a thread in the general section or something called 'why trunks needs to go fuck off' or something, I'll gladly continue a fight in a thread made just for that purpose.

Oh yeah, for those not sure, a weeaboo is someone that likes the Japanese culture and anime/manga to an obsessive level, and tries to act like they are Japaneese themselves, including trying to speak Japanese, or referencing anime too much, etc. I think taking the name of your game and translating it into Japanese qualifies.