Dead. Zerky killed it for Evil Sadistic fun

[berserkerhorn]

6864. How are you all not dead yet?

7076. I DON'T KNOW! BUT I SURE AS HELL HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DEADED

[sogekik]

7077. *pulls out a sword and decapitates Zerky **
7078. There you go!

[Hugh mann]

7049. Well that escalated quickly.
7050. *Shoot's sogekik with a fireball for fucking up the numbers*

[sogekik]

7051. *Deflects fireball with the aforementioned sword in Lynxy's general direction *
7052. actually that way Lynxy, quite a while back
7053. * stabs the small antelope with the sword *
7054. besides if you go back far enough you'll probably find that all the numbers are wrong by quite a large margin at this point anyway

[Hugh mann]

7055. Lynxy accidentally typed "74" instead of "44" because she was talking to musical74, that was a perfectly understandable mistake.
7056. Continuing to use the wrong numbers was not.
7057. *Headbutts sogekik while impaled on the sword before kicking him through a near by wall*
7058. I am more aware of that than you realize...

[sogekik]

7059. then it'd be on Zerky, for continuing it onto the next page, I'd read through the last page a while back and knew where the conversation was from but continued the numbers from the post above as is usually sensible

[Hugh mann]

7060. *Emerges from the woods and surveys the scene*

7061. Hmm... It seems that berserkerhorn's death is causing the whole thread to die...
7062. That won't do... That won't do at all.
7063. *Looks around to see if anyone is watching*

7064. Okay, better hurry before someone shows up, don't need these idiots trying to sabotage me.
7065. *Takes out a tube of glue, and uses it to reattach berserkerhorns head*
7066. *Places berserkerhorns crudely reassembled corpse in a rusty bathtub filled with stem cells and nanomachines*

7067. Oh, what the fuck am i even doing? There's no way this is gonna work...
7068. *Throws a camouflage tarp over the tub*
7069. There we go.

7070 *Retreats back into the woods*

[sogekik]

7071. * watches the dik dik flee the bathtub*
7072. * comes over to investigate *
7073. that's just..... well whatever, where did I put my gasoline
7074. * leaves and returns several minutes later with a canister of gas*
7075. *pours the gas into the bathtub, then chucks a match in *

[berserkerhorn]

7076. DEJAVU, I GET THE FEELING I'VE USED THIS NUMBER BEFORE.

[sogekik]

7077. ditto,
7078. and this one too...
7079. in anycase I knew fire would work better than a general misapplication of modern science

[Hugh mann]

I knew fire would work better than a general misapplication of modern science

7080. You clearly have no idea how nanites/nanomachines and stem cells work.
7081. Those nanites are able to convert ambient thermal energy into electricity to power themselves.
7082. Fire didn't 'work better' it simply expedited the process I started.
7083. I suppose in some profoundly idiotic way you did help though, so thanks, I guess...
7084. I do have to ask though, Why the fuck would you try to burn a tub full of non-flammable liquid?

[sogekik]

7085. actually, I'm a science student, I know exactly how, stem cells work, and exactly why nanobots don't.
7086. similarly, I can tell you that everything is flammable if you heat it up high enough, and that's what the gas was for anyway, given that it will burn if exposed to heat and in the presence of oxygen.
7087. the combustion of the oil would denature the stem-cells rendering them a useless bio-organic goop, additionally, they are flammable, you'd need a temperature of about 370C to set them alight, and petrol burns at about 950C, so the conditions are satisfactory for them to burn.
7088. stem cells aren't strictly a fluid, well in the biological sense ( if we're talking thermodynamics then everything is fluid, question this and I will put you in a blender), especially as it depends on the type of stem cells
7089. I was (have) going to explain how nanites are impossible ( see the contents of the spoiler), but let's ignore that, computers like people require a specific temperature to operate if you heat your motherboard up to 90C chances are it'll shut down to save itself, nanites would rely on standard computation, for the most part, with no way to vent heat they'd simply stop working due to heat damage.
7090. so TL;DR gasoline fire beats nanites and stem cells
7091. by science student, I actually mean computer science student, but I know a lot about the core sciences too

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

7092. as previously stated nanites are not actually a feasible concept, even if we assume that nano, in this case, means small rather than actually nanoscopic (a few billionths of a meter), for a functional processor to do anything useful, you'd need a minimum of 6000 transistors, ( if we want it to be able to function on the level of an Intel 8080. I could have picked something older and smaller but the 8080 is probably roughly the minimum you'd need for something automatic to work exceptionally slowly)
7093. so if we have 6000 (6084) transistors on a chip on a nanobot, that gives us (not actually a ) square block of transistors 78 x 78, each spaced (feasibly) 6nm apart, that gives us a chip 468nm by 468nm or .468 μm (micrometres), (that could actually be as little as 146nmx146nm except heat becomes an even larger issues)
7094. so what's the problem? well we have a processor, that's 1/3 of the basic computational needs, next is storage, but I'll get to that in a moment because we need to address another problem which is heat, in a computer system you need a heatsink to move the heat away from the processor, the closer the transistors the warmer the processor gets during it's operation so this would definitely be necessary on a nanoscopic scale. this would probably be enough to take our .468 squared, and cube it.
7095. next box in our 3 box model: Storage: the average Areal density ( bit per area) is about 5Tb/inch^2 or 7.7Gb/mm^2 if we assume that it needs about as much knowledge of the human body to perform repairs as a medical student, then we're looking at about 80MB of data minimum, this is assuming that the equivalent of about 1200 pages of medical documentation is needed (this is a guess, but the human body is complicated and this is likely on the small size), this gives us another 10 micrometers^2 so our total size is no around 10x10x1 micrometres, except that that's megabytes, not megabits.
7096. so converting loosely that gives us a total area of 80x80x1 micrometres (ignoring the 1.024 per denomination change, I'm being lazy with the math), and that's not accounting for core programming, which would probably require at least twice as much again
7097. I/O our final box is where things become a problem, nanobots would require a transmitter, even if they're autonomous they'd still need to communicate with each other, and this is where we have a problem. Making a transmitter small enough to transmit at a radio frequency (least harmful to the human body and lowest power requirement, Ideal for this) for a nanomachine is problematic, the smallest conventional transmitter I can find is about 3x1mm, which is much too large for a nanobot, we could use graphene, but this hasn't been achieved yet, or at least well documented, so I'm going to disregard this as we already have a transmitter remember I mentioned a heatsink? well, that could be used as a transmitter for small amounts of data, but... well new problem, we're talking about using this on a human body, the human body isn't designed to cope with internal temperatures significantly removed from about 37c to use the heat sync as a communication device efficiently you'd want a high heat output, at least 60C. this would also require slowing the processor and keeping all nanites in sync with each other constantly ( see bitwhisper). so we're back to not having a transmitter on a nano or close to nano scale...
7098. in short it doesn't work

[Hugh mann]

7099. Claims to have brought someone back from the dead by lighting them on fire, then rights a dissertation on the impracticality of nanomachines.........

7100. Sigh... I suppose I'll humour you.
7101. I was envisioning machines small enough to repair the molecular structure of dead cells, and in theory, revive them.
7102. You seem to have made a lot of baseless assumptions about how I was imagining that these machines would function.

7103. Firstly, I was not talking about a bunch of individual autonomous units, but rather units that interconnect with eachother to form more complex structures to adapt to the task they have been given.
7104. In the case of reconstructing a human body, I'd imagine the most efficient structure would look a lot like the roots of a plant growing through the body, basically, the nanites would form strands and carry materials back and forth along them.
7105. This also means that they would be sharing data over a physical connection, I believe this solves the transmitter issue, does it not?

7106. You also assume that each nanite would need to have all the information required to reconstruct the human body stored on it, which is ridiculous, the information could be spread between any number of nanites, as long as they are interconnected.
7107. It could also be transmitted to them from an external source.

7108. Now, for the heat issue, I think I'll just refer to this https://m.phys.org/news/2014-03-electricity.html
7109. Perhaps I am being overly optimistic about how efficient this conversion of energy could be, but it seems possible to create nanites that would essentially be immune to heat damage (Barring extreme heat of course) because they would just convert the heat to electricity.

7110. Also, I ain't no physicist, but I do know that heat rises, so I doubt that a canister of gas would burn long enough to destroy the stem cells more than a few inches down, even if they weren't mixed with fire retardant nanomachines.
7111. I also know that its the gas *fumes* that burn, so if you poured out a canister of gas, and then lit a match, you probably would have lit yourself on fire too. (Or at least singed your hair/got some flash burns)

[musical74]

7112. UGH quit the scientific discussion already!

[sogekik]

7112. firstly as your always so anal about grammar and such, it's "Write" not " Right"
7113. let's start with 7102. I haven't made any assumptions as to what you'd think, I laid out a general explanation as to what scientifically would be needed for such a thing to exist. I never mentioned implicitly function aside from briefly mentioning medical knowledge. in fact the only assumption I made in my answer is that you were not, in fact, referring to something in the E^-7 to E^-9 range which is definitely beyond the scope of modern science. (Actually, strictly speaking, I've made a number of scientific assumptions, mostly for the sake of simplifying things and ignoring the numerous impossibilities of nanomachines where modern science and robotics are concerned)
7114. 7103: neither did I, most of what I mentioned was general, and I even mention interconnection when talking about transmission, though I didn't explicitly go into swarm theory, and therefore a complex interconnected network ( which actually requires multiple connections and therefore more size and mass etc.) though I suppose arguably you could reduce the size of storage by storing information across the swarm, though each would still need it's own instruction sets ( and this is generally a bad idea (see 7116.))
7115. 7104: never really went into this because I was looking at the general feasibility and my knowledge of medicine and treatment on a cellular level is lacking, though actually cellular manipulation, though inducing a process like CRISPR to repair cells would probably be the easiest approach.
7116. 7105: contact-based transmission isn't really possible, or at least not in a wet environment, and certainly not easy, the closest would be NFC which is effectively a shortwave radio transmission. Bit whisper would probably be the best method for it but would be exceptionally slow, bitrate scales proportionally with the processor and heatsink, a standard computer gets a transmission rate of about 50Mb an hour (not Mb is megabit, not megabytes, which is MB) which leads me on to 7106:
7117. there are 2 reasons for this, for each unit to act in real time and in unison with each other unit, all data is required by each unit operating on the same area at the same time, if we assume we're using an FM signal this might be okay, if there's no interference a swarm approach works, which is great, if your not in a soup of ferrous particles and EM radiation which is exactly what the human body is, so redundancy is key. if you use heat you have the same problem though as the nanites would be warmer than surrounding material this would be less of an issue but the transmission rate would be too slow to efficiently transmit data in real time, therefore, redundancy is necessary, it also deals with transmission errors due to interference
7118. an external source would have the same issue to a greater degree for the same reasons and would require an additional transmitter.
7119. that might actually work, but that would then be used as a heatsink, it deals with the heat but in the same way, I suggested fundamentally, though may allow for it to be smaller. and provides power in the form of heat, I didn't go into power in my argument, because on that scale in the human body it isn't really an issue, a small power cell could be charged using ambient heat, you can use the heat from the human body to power larger electronics, like watches for example. using the processor for this would also work.
7120. yep, you're being overly optimistic, but computers, like the human body like operating at specific temperatures, so controlling the temperature is important and that would help to some degree I cba to do calculations or find figures, given this is all hypothetical anyway, it may even actually be used in modern computers already given that the article is from 2014, and it's usually hard to track stuff like that after they've initially been reported until something significant happens with it again.
7121. depends largely on whether it ignites the stem cells I could do the maths and work it out but it'd take me half an hour or so and this has already taken too long XD, especially as I'd need to know specific heat capacities and the like for stem cells and the nanites, it also depends on the duration of ignition, and a number of other pieces of data and how much Zerky's corpse interrupts the ignition.
7122. both the gas and the liquid are flammable, as well as possibly the smoke ( this is true with Candles, you can use the smoke to reignite them, like so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5eTn5d0cvg , I don't know if this actually applies to all smoke) and maybe,
7123. too late musical

[Hugh mann]

7125. *Impales musical74 with a spectral tendril*
7126. I saw that post you deleted, coward.
7127. Why don't you go see if that alligator is still alive?
7128. *Flings musical74 into the well*

7129. Yeah, I noticed that shortly after posting; I'll try to write 'writes' right in the future.

7130. To clarify, by 'physical connection' I meant a nanofiber cable literally connecting them, which they would use to exchange data; I don't see how a wet environment would make that any more or less feasible.

all data is required by each unit operating on the same area at the same time,

7131. Okay, think about what you're saying here, we are talking about nanomachines repairing cells, why would the units repairing a blood vessel in the big toe require the same information as the units repairing neurons in the brain?
7132. They don't, they only need the information directly related to what they are doing.
7133. And you can still have redundancy with the information spread between units.

7134. Hmm, neat trick, but I don't think that is actually the smoke burning, but rather wax vapor.

[sogekik]

7135. 7130: then they wouldn't really be separate bots, and that would get really complicated, though I suppose it is possible. but it's probably the most complicated and difficult way off connecting them, though also the easiest way of making them small,
7136. if you're going to quote me check what you're quoting, before questioning it, I'm not sure about Dik-dik (actually that's a lie), but generally speaking, the big toe is nowhere near the brain, (Dik-Dik don't actually have toes for that matter, well they do kind of... but shhh), but if you have several nanites working on repairing say the liver, rather than cells which won't require repair, (blood cells are replaced fast enough that if they're damaged you'd dispose of them rather than fixing them) then each must know how the liver cells need to be repaired.
7137. 32&33: they only need information directly related to the task at hand... until it moves on. the point of redundancy in a system constructed of multiple parts is that operation can be maintained if communication is lost, and with every available communication method there will be issues. if we take the nano-wire approach we're probably looking at a single atom chain of carbon connecting bots (graphene is probably the best thing), this allows of a bitrate of about 3.2Mb/s in theory, in practice as we have to deal with a high interference over an uninsulated cable(insulation at this size would be hard, it's possible but it probably makes the system more complicated) we're probably looking at more like 2.3Mb/s (this is assuming we're using two's compliment on each byte) due to interference caused by heat, electrical signals, and etc. in the human body this probably drops to an effective rate much lower requiring packets to be resent regularly. lets assume that conventional EM transmitters are off the table because they're too large, that leaves us with Bitwhisper (microwave transmission and as I keep mentioning it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWRk51oB-1Y) we're looking at a transfer rate of 8.3Kb/s which is too slow to share information over a network effectively, but may still actually be faster than the wire weirdly.

7138. along with carbon particles yes, granted not actually the smoke but the visible particles given off, my point being that may also be a flammable but IDK

[musical74]

7139. The alligator wasn't around, it was boring in the well.
7140. *shoots both Hugh Mann and sogekik with rage-induced fireballs*
7141. Knock off the science stuff already!!
7142. This is not the science thread, this is sadistic evil thread!
7143. PM each other if you want to discuss the science stuff, you'll scare everyone else away!
7144. "Goes searching for Miss Lyxny for fun times while sogekik and Hugh Mann discuss science stuff"

[sogekik]

7145. *deflects the fireball with a wave of his hand *
7146. I refuse to be lectured about evil discussions by a neutral, go commit a few massacres then come back and lecture
7147. * throws the sword in musicals direction *

[Hugh mann]

7148. Uhm? I have been arguing that a nanite only needs to store the information required to repair the type of cell that it is tasked with repairing, and storing information on repairing other cell types would be a waste of extremely limited resources; While you have been claiming that each nanites needs to store all the information required to repair all cells in the body.

next box in our 3 box model: Storage: the average Areal density ( bit per area) is about 5Tb/inch^2 or 7.7Gb/mm^2 if we assume that it needs about as much knowledge of the human body to perform repairs as a medical student, then we're looking at about 80MB of data minimum, this is assuming that the equivalent of about 1200 pages of medical documentation is needed (this is a guess, but the human body is complicated and this is likely on the small size), this gives us another 10 micrometers^2 so our total size is no around 10x10x1 micrometres, except that that's megabytes, not megabits.[/spoiler]

You also assume that each nanite would need to have all the information required to reconstruct the human body stored on it, which is ridiculous, the information could be spread between any number of nanites, as long as they are interconnected.

there are 2 reasons for this, for each unit to act in real time and in unison with each other unit, all data is required by each unit operating on the same area at the same time, if we assume we're using an FM signal this might be okay, if there's no interference a swarm approach works, which is great, if your not in a soup of ferrous particles and EM radiation which is exactly what the human body is, so redundancy is key. if you use heat you have the same problem though as the nanites would be warmer than surrounding material this would be less of an issue but the transmission rate would be too slow to efficiently transmit data in real time, therefore, redundancy is necessary, it also deals with transmission errors due to interference

Okay, think about what you're saying here, we are talking about nanomachines repairing cells, why would the units repairing a blood vessel in the big toe require the same information as the units repairing neurons in the brain?
7132. They don't, they only need the information directly related to what they are doing.
7133. And you can still have redundancy with the information spread between units.

if you're going to quote me check what you're quoting, before questioning it, I'm not sure about Dik-dik (actually that's a lie), but generally speaking, the big toe is nowhere near the brain, (Dik-Dik don't actually have toes for that matter, well they do kind of... but shhh), but if you have several nanites working on repairing say the liver, rather than cells which won't require repair, (blood cells are replaced fast enough that if they're damaged you'd dispose of them rather than fixing them) then each must know how the liver cells need to be repaired.

7149. You are literally repeating the point I was making back to me, and acting like you disagree with me.
7150. Also I said "Blood vessel" that's another term for "Vein" not blood ce-*Gets hit in the face with a fireball*

7151. *Pats out his flaming fur*
7152. Well now, it wouldn't be very evil to stop talking about science just because you want us to, would it?

"Goes searching for Miss Lyxny for fun times while sogekik and Hugh Mann discuss science stuff"

7153. Pfffft, You really think she'd be interested in a neutral? Face it, the only way you'd ever get inside her is if we use your ground up corpse to make tacos.