Filled By Daylight (CS Welcome)

[Phoenixcz]

Now that you mention it... I couldn't see my pic in the OP list of characters yesterday, thought it was some copy-paste error, or that it was removed for some reason, but it's fine now...

[MiscChaos]

Provided nothing else goes wrong, I'll be back in my town with my computer tomorrow and I'll be able to post up. Basically I've used my phone to check in on things since Sunday because I had to do a lot of shit about 75 miles away and had to stay there because people made things difficult.

EDIT: On that same token, that means I haven't implemented a lot of the changes to the map that I've had in mind yet. So the post will likely be later in the day since I have to put those into effect.

[devilbird]

I can sympathize. Take your time.

[MiscChaos]

I'm afraid there may be another delay. I got home only to find the power is off. And my electricity company is being really slow on answering why and restoring my power. So obviously I still can't use my computer which, depending pn how much longer it is, can mean I won't get anything out today

[MiscChaos]

After many delays, the post is finally away! Let me know if there needs to be any improvements to the map. I'm still toying with the best way to represent things after all.

[Phoenixcz]

Map is much better now.

Is there a limit how much talking we could do with each other? Lexa's close to Lily, but can we have a conversation, or only what fits into the single post?

I knew I'm fucked when I saw the positions in the first post. Yeah, I should've avoided reading other people's posts for spoilers, but... yay for random positioning.

[MiscChaos]

Conversation is fine so long as there are no additional actions that go with it. Just beware because talking too loud does carry a risk...

And yeah, ya'll were in a REALLY bad position due to RNG. I tried to even the odds a little, but there's only so much I can do while both keeping it random and not making it convoluted as fuck.

[mrblah]

don't worry, i'll even the odds with my bad playing. i have no idea what i'm doing.

[Nobudi]

don't worry, i'll even the odds with my bad playing. i have no idea what i'm doing.

• Rape Survivors
• Rape Survivors
• Complete the objective
• Rape Survivors on the way out.

[MiscChaos]

It's that how you do the best though? No one can predict you if you yourself don't know what you'll do!

[devilbird]

After many delays, the post is finally away! Let me know if there needs to be any improvements to the map. I'm still toying with the best way to represent things after all.

So, I wanna see how this plays out, but I'm pretty sure that the map might be too small for the amount of objects we have/need. Right now it just seems entirely too easy for generators to end up clumped around each other, such as the three I'm currently surrounded by. And it doesn't look like there's much room for them for them to have spread out either.

On one hand, this makes the generators easy to find, but it also makes them easy to camp. Like I said, I plan on playing this map through, because part of this first game is to beta test the mechanics. Or at least, that's how I see it. However, I think I've come up with a few ideas of how to balance the map size.

1) instead of a 12x12 map, perhaps a 15x15? That would certainly add a lot of surface area while hopefully not making the map too large by accident. Basically just a slightly larger concept of this map.

2) literally expanding on this further, an 18x18 map. The idea is to make 9 equal sized sections. Then you can add the rule of no more than 1 generator per section. You could also make generating future maps a bit easier with this method. Just like in Super Dungeon Explore, if you had pre-made map sections saved up, then you could just roll to see which section goes where, roll a d4 to rotate it, then just populate the map with objects. Speed values might need to be adjusted for this kind of map, however, it would make things easier for you since you wanted to run multiple games. It would be a great way to force players to look for each other, look for the generators/doors/trap door, and force the rapist to patrol more. Finally, it would be a great way for ranged rapists (the huntress or the trapper for example) to feel the benefit of their powers.

3) This idea is to keep the 12x12 map, but make three of them. One for each floor. It may seem like a lot of ground to cover, but a reasonable amount of stairs and holes make it so a lot of those parts would be adjacent to each other. Plus, you can always blank out parts of the upper and basement levels to help restrict things. This map idea gives that multidimensional feel to it, and would allow for a custom made basement with special hooks/chains/ arms/ tentacles just like in the source game.

Obviously if you felt like it, you could mix and match these concepts, but you would definitely have to readjust speed to match. All that said, it can wait until the next match at least, as my concerns may be for nothing.

[MiscChaos]

I'll revisit this after the first game since, yeah, this is basically a play test to see what works and what doesn't, but I'm DEFINITELY adding new rules as to how I spread things out at least. The fact that 5 generators ended up within a 3 tile range of each other was a little ridiculous. Which brings up the camping/ease of access issue you brought up earlier. I mean, generators can end up clustered together in-game as well, but usually not to this degree. This may be an issue, it may not be. Like I said, it's something to revisit after the first game.

Depending on the first game, I'll also toy with the speeds. Right now, Players move at 2 tiles/post if walking/crouching and 4 if sprinting and Rapists move at a steady 6 tiles/post. I don't know yet if these speeds are good enough to keep things interesting since doing things on a forum is much different than doing things in a game. No one's really used all of their movement so I haven't seen a good representation of it yet, but if it turns out this is too slow then I'll see about cranking things up.

Speaking of generating maps, the biggest problem really are walls surprisingly enough. I currently don't have a way of generating them so it boils down to me just throwing them wherever and hoping there's enough. As a rule of thumb there are at least 2 small walls around each pallet, but besides that I don't have a rule established yet for how many walls there are and where they go. So I'll need to figure that out to make things go smoother on future maps.

Speaking of maps, I also need a better way of generating them. Basically how it goes right now is I use pyromancers to generate the basic map, which is just the walls surrounding it and the background of it you see. Then I take the basic template and throw it in Photoshop and add everything else myself but rolling d144s for the props. So since there needs to be 7 generators, I'd roll 7d144 for their locations and 2d144 for chests since there are always 3 chests, one of which is in the dungeon. Which, again, leads to issues like where to put the walls and making things unique to the map at hand. For example, originally the current one was going to be 1 large map but that wouldn't have made sense for the Mimic. The Mimic lived in homes owned by wealthy people, so only having 1 floor wouldn't have let that show. So I split the map in two and labeled one half the first floor and the other the second. Which only increased the feeling of things being cluttered together. In the future, I think if I'm going to have a map be 2+ floors, I'm going to use your third idea. After all, there's no rule that says all the maps MUST be the same size. But I'll wait until this run is done with before I really toy with the formula.

[devilbird]

Honestly, I think my second idea would help out a lot in that regard if you felt like testing it. Basically, you would make the maps for the walls, windows and furniture. That will be the hardest part, but I could probably fine a map generator that would help with that regard. Basically, you would just need to make enough halls and corridors that would that cover at least twice the number of pallets that you would use. Place and rotate map sections accordingly, roll for random objects. That would just leave the pallets, which you would just place as you saw fit. Maybe a few rules to make deciding easier, like pallets must be 5+ squares apart or something.

Anyways, lemme see if I can find a basic map generator that would determine walls and such. That way you can use it in tandem with the one you use now. Then all you'd have to do is overlay them.

[MiscChaos]

So I think I might have found a solution of sorts, but I wanna run it past everyone before I really start playing with it.
This is the basic map before I do anything with it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

I found a maze creator site and randomly generated a maze. So when I layer that on top of the map, I get this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Some of these walls could be turned into windows, but otherwise I worry that the second one is too straight forward. If a Survivor is being chased by a Rapist, it doesn't leave too many places to go unless I get rid of some of the walls or convert a good number of them into windows. At least to me. What do ya'll think?

[devilbird]

I like it, but I agree that you'll probably have to knock out a few walls to make actual rooms while converting others into windows. Ideally, you'll want to make a few solid rooms, and have more than one route to most of them (rapist's lair excluded of course). Do both of these generators allow you to adjust the size of your maps/mazes? If so, then I would think this to be ideal. After all, it's easier to delete a few walls over trying to figure out where to place them.

[MiscChaos]

The maze is much easier to adjust than the base map. For the maze, basically I end up with a really small image, make it transparent, then scale it up to match the base. For the base itself, I'd have to go back to pyromancers and remake it. Which isn't difficult really. So yeah, if everyone doesn't mind this then this set up would work very well.

[devilbird]

Alright, doing a little math for me to use later. Feel free to ignore this post as this is me just saving my work and thought process for the next match to make things potentially easier.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Alright, so a 15x15 size map would probably be ideal for the section set up. Basically it becomes a 5x5x9 map, or 9 5x5 sections, with a surface area of 25 tiles each, or a total of 225 tiles per completed map. Admittedly, I'm not sure how to calculate movement speed per map size, but it may be necessary to double or even triple movement speed per turn depending on map size, especially since that can create more detail per post during chase scenes. On the other hand, slower movement is useful for limiting reaction to other players actions (ex: a rapist evading a pallet that would hit them otherwise.) Play testing will be required, but I believe a balance of 2 squares per walking movement, and 4 squares per running may be ideal.

Making just one map this way gives us 9 spaces that we could put one of the 9 sections. If you roll to rotate each section as well, that gives us 9 places * 9 possible tiles * 4 possible rotations = 324 random map setups to play around with. If we make just one more 15x15 map to divide up and use in this way, then that doubles the possible set ups to 648.

[devilbird]

Oh, quick question. If I make new characters, would you like them in a new post so that you know when I've made more? Or would you like me to keep them in the same post as my other CS so as to not bog down the thread? I mainly ask because I still want to make a roster based loosely off some of my favorite killers and survivors from the source game (The Pig and the Trapper as examples of the killers, the MMA fighter and the medical support character as examples of the survivors).

[MiscChaos]

I would prefer if they were kept in the same post as much as possible. Just a quick post or a PM to tell me that you've created more so I can add them to the roster would be appreciated.

[MiscChaos]

Posts are MOSTLY done! There's just a last detail that I need to iron out before I throw it up. Also, remember everyone, I'm still interested in opinions on the maze layering idea for map building.