So my friend joined a cult

[TheWrongHands]

Hello, I haven't been on this forum in a long time, but I wasn't sure where else to talk about this and since this is where I met this friend, it seemed fitting. I'm not really here to ask for advice or anything and I'm not sure there really is anything to be done about it, I'm just here to talk about this and get it off my chest. Years ago (i don't remember exactly how long it's been) I met this person on this site and we became friends. I valued our friendship greatly, but I was apparently the only one that did so. Early 2017 they started becoming more and more distant, They had told me they got some new friends and was rping with them so I didn't really think too much of it. Then towards the end of November they just went completely radio silent, ignoring all of my messages. After a week or 2 I started to worry something had happened to them, but then on New Years Eve they finally responded. They informed me that they were now part of a group that held certain beliefs and no longer "needed" me and that if I wished to remain friends with them I too would have to start believing these things. I refused to just start believing crazy non-sense and they refused to listen to me explain why it was crazy non-sense, so they severed all ties with me and I no longer have any way to reach them. Now I've always known that critical thinking was never their strong suit and offered many times to help them learn, but I had always just thought that it would just be to help them better handle social interactions, it never occurred to me that they would run off and join a cult, so I never pushed it. I have mostly just been sitting here since trying to process these events, wondering if I could have done things differently, and trying to figure out why.

[angerygerman]

Well thats not something you hear everyday. I honestly have no idea how to help you sir, good luck. maybe someone will take more notice to this with this comment (bump)

[musical74]

Googling "what to do when a friend joins a cult" gave a bunch of resources, I think http://www.cultwatch.com/how-to-help-fr ... amily.html is a good start. I'm an amateur psychologist so this kind of thing is of interest to me, helping people...but making sure it's NOT a cult!

[TheWrongHands]

Googling "what to do when a friend joins a cult" gave a bunch of resources, I think http://www.cultwatch.com/how-to-help-fr ... amily.html is a good start. I'm an amateur psychologist so this kind of thing is of interest to me, helping people...but making sure it's NOT a cult!

i appreciate the link, but i'm afraid all lines of communication i had with my friend have already been severed. i'm afraid i don't think there is anything more i can actually do to help them. for the very short time in which i was both able to talk to them and knew about their new cult status, they rejected everything i said and refused to listen to anything i said. they also justified not hearing me out by applying various labels to me, passed experience has taught me that once someone starts doing that they won't listen to any of your arguments because they see them as some how tainted.

perhaps there is a way to get someone like that to listen, but i'm afraid i'm also not very good with people or getting people to listen to me in general.

[Zeus Kabob]

Sounds like something bad happened and you're having to think hard about the circumstances.

My advice to you (and to everyone reading this) is to think about what to do next time. In the future, if a friend became interested in a cult, or any other social group that would cut them off from you and potentially the rest of the world, think about what you should consider. Does this change have the potential to seriously harm them or impact their future? Does their presence in your life matter a lot to you? What should you say to them to show that you care about them and have concerns about this, without it coming across as a knee-jerk reaction?

TheWrongHands, think about what you might do next time in this sort of situation, and how you could better maintain relationships that matter to you.

Personally, I'm having trouble deciding what I'd do if a close friend became interested in a cult. I think I'd try to reach out and show them the people they'd be leaving behind, to hopefully convince them that they're trading too much for this new social situation.

[Ynsano]

There is a way to see if someone else in this forum still talks to them... but that requires you to post they nicks... idk.. is your choice but i believe you choose not to post the nicks... respect privacy and such...

[AcetheSuperVillain]

The way I see it, if this friend is really your friend, you have to respect your friend's freedom. It's not ethical or practical to have complete control over who someone else can talk to, or what they can like or what they believe or how they think. If you're worried whether or not you've made the right decisions, infringing on someone else's freedom wouldn't have been the right thing to do either. "It takes a village to raise a child" and we all rely on our "villages" for our entire lives. You can't be expected to be the sole person who stops this friend from making self-destructive decisions.

Plus, you mentioned that you valued your friendship, but then the other person did not. It's a common thing for human beings to create expectations of people in our minds, and ultimately it's impossible to ever actually know what someone else is truly thinking, so we when we form a relationship with someone, we form a relationship with our expectation of the person instead of with the person themself. This is a much, much less serious example than joining cults, but for example, my father loves to cook, and has this expectation that every time he cooks something his loving family will shower him with praise. But lately, he cooked a kale soup, and I've taken every opportunity to express my deep dislike for kale in the past, but he makes this kale soup and is offended when I taste a bit and go find something else to eat because "he made that soup for me". When I remind him again that I don't like kale and have never liked kale, he just says "I didn't know you don't like kale". Maybe I somehow wasn't forceful enough, but the point is, if he had actually made soup "for me" he wouldn't have put kale in it. He made soup for the expectation of me, an imaginary friend version of me.

So not knowing anything about you or your friend or how well you knew one another and just that this is human nature, it might just be that your expectation of your friend simply didn't match up with the real person. And it wouldn't be the first time someone made that mistake, just watch a god damned sitcom for examples.

[TheWrongHands]

Sounds like something bad happened and you're having to think hard about the circumstances.

My advice to you (and to everyone reading this) is to think about what to do next time. In the future, if a friend became interested in a cult, or any other social group that would cut them off from you and potentially the rest of the world, think about what you should consider. Does this change have the potential to seriously harm them or impact their future? Does their presence in your life matter a lot to you? What should you say to them to show that you care about them and have concerns about this, without it coming across as a knee-jerk reaction?

TheWrongHands, think about what you might do next time in this sort of situation, and how you could better maintain relationships that matter to you.

Personally, I'm having trouble deciding what I'd do if a close friend became interested in a cult. I think I'd try to reach out and show them the people they'd be leaving behind, to hopefully convince them that they're trading too much for this new social situation.

sadly i didn't know they were anything but an rp group the months leading up to this and then when it happened i had maybe half an hour until i was completely cut off from them. sadly it didn't occur to me that this was even a cult thing until after they had cut contact and i had time to process what they had said.

There is a way to see if someone else in this forum still talks to them... but that requires you to post they nicks... idk.. is your choice but i believe you choose not to post the nicks... respect privacy and such...

i don't think they had any other friends, or their friends would probably have likely gotten the same message i did.

The way I see it, if this friend is really your friend, you have to respect your friend's freedom. It's not ethical or practical to have complete control over who someone else can talk to, or what they can like or what they believe or how they think. If you're worried whether or not you've made the right decisions, infringing on someone else's freedom wouldn't have been the right thing to do either. "It takes a village to raise a child" and we all rely on our "villages" for our entire lives. You can't be expected to be the sole person who stops this friend from making self-destructive decisions.

Plus, you mentioned that you valued your friendship, but then the other person did not. It's a common thing for human beings to create expectations of people in our minds, and ultimately it's impossible to ever actually know what someone else is truly thinking, so we when we form a relationship with someone, we form a relationship with our expectation of the person instead of with the person themself. This is a much, much less serious example than joining cults, but for example, my father loves to cook, and has this expectation that every time he cooks something his loving family will shower him with praise. But lately, he cooked a kale soup, and I've taken every opportunity to express my deep dislike for kale in the past, but he makes this kale soup and is offended when I taste a bit and go find something else to eat because "he made that soup for me". When I remind him again that I don't like kale and have never liked kale, he just says "I didn't know you don't like kale". Maybe I somehow wasn't forceful enough, but the point is, if he had actually made soup "for me" he wouldn't have put kale in it. He made soup for the expectation of me, an imaginary friend version of me.

So not knowing anything about you or your friend or how well you knew one another and just that this is human nature, it might just be that your expectation of your friend simply didn't match up with the real person. And it wouldn't be the first time someone made that mistake, just watch a god damned sitcom for examples.

you are right, i can not control them and would never seek to, they are an adult and are capable of making their own choices, but i feel like i failed them, like i failed to help them acquire the tools they needed to protect them selves. i suppose i feel like a parent who's child ran way to join a crack house some where. i always knew they had issues with thinking critically, but i never pushed them that much to learn.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

I mean, I don't know, it all depends on what exactly this cult tried to force your buddy into, but I'm a Neo-Pagan conspiracity theorist who makes furry porn, there are a lot of people in the world who would accuse me of making the wrong choices or people who think they've failed me for me to end up this way. But I don't consider my beliefs or morals to be wrong or harmful, I don't consider my life to be a failure, I'm pretty happy with who I am and I think the world would be better off with more people like me in it. So sure, I know that there are cults out there that I would consider "bad" and harmful or at least selfish, and cutting off communication with outsiders raises some alarm, but without knowing more about what this cult actually believes, all I can do is put myself in your buddy's shoes and think about how I wouldn't want other people tell me I'm stupid for believing something different.

[TheWrongHands]

I mean, I don't know, it all depends on what exactly this cult tried to force your buddy into, but I'm a Neo-Pagan conspiracity theorist who makes furry porn, there are a lot of people in the world who would accuse me of making the wrong choices or people who think they've failed me for me to end up this way. But I don't consider my beliefs or morals to be wrong or harmful, I don't consider my life to be a failure, I'm pretty happy with who I am and I think the world would be better off with more people like me in it. So sure, I know that there are cults out there that I would consider "bad" and harmful or at least selfish, and cutting off communication with outsiders raises some alarm, but without knowing more about what this cult actually believes, all I can do is put myself in your buddy's shoes and think about how I wouldn't want other people tell me I'm stupid for believing something different.

i've always tried to make it clear that i don't really care what they believe so long as it wasn't harmful to themselves or others. my main contention with their new beliefs is that their new friends filled their head with false non-sense about me, which made them think they should no longer have contact with me. i don't really know about their other beliefs or what they are currently doing. my friend always wanted to become a living sex toy, perhaps they are now living their dream.

[angerygerman]

I know that I didn't really help you out at all, but have you had any luck in at least contacting your friend?

[TheWrongHands]

no, i'm afraid there has been no response to any of the messages i've sent

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

I suppose the very first step in a very long list of things would be to get their attention.

You can try to start that by asking if they would like to tell you a bit more about their little cult?

[TheWrongHands]

they cut contact with me because they were convinced i was tainted but what ever their equivalent of the devil is, so even if they were still speaking to me i doubt i'd be able to get much out of them as anything i said would be the trickster words of the devil.

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

Oh... Ok that's not what I thought it would be like...

[AcetheSuperVillain]

Well, for the benefit of whoever's listening, that kind of thing is exactly why I'm not christian anymore. I can't trust a religion that feels the need to snuff out anything that raises a hint of doubt about their beliefs. I grew up in a household where we weren't allowed to play video games or watch captain planet because they were the devil's work. Then one day I read a quote by the dalai lama saying "If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change. In my view, science and Buddhism share a search for the truth and for understanding reality." That blew me away. Still does. And then there's a quote by odin in the havamal that says "no one is so good that they are without fault, and no one is so wicked that they count for nothing." That whole concept seemed right, but so outrageous to me, and even more so that gods and holy men were saying them.

And when you demonize your opponents, you get stuck with the devil yourself. Look at Alabama. They're so rigidly republican that they almost elected a child molester to the senate, because somehow slightly less than half of voting Alabamans thought that a child molester was still better than a democrat. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical about your beliefs, religious, ideological, or otherwise. It's healthy. It's how you protect yourself from charlatans who would use your beliefs against you. It's how you reach the truth, the real truth, the deep truth. When a mechanic doubts his engine and inspects it, that process makes the engine stronger, and so should inspecting your beliefs lead to stronger beliefs. You should never be afraid to question your beliefs, but you should always be afraid of people who say you shouldn't question your beliefs.

Hopefully your friend found this cult because they are in the process of seeking the truth, and hopefully they will keep seeking the truth until they can sense your friendship again.

[TheWrongHands]

Well, for the benefit of whoever's listening, that kind of thing is exactly why I'm not christian anymore. I can't trust a religion that feels the need to snuff out anything that raises a hint of doubt about their beliefs. I grew up in a household where we weren't allowed to play video games or watch captain planet because they were the devil's work. Then one day I read a quote by the dalai lama saying "If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change. In my view, science and Buddhism share a search for the truth and for understanding reality." That blew me away. Still does. And then there's a quote by odin in the havamal that says "no one is so good that they are without fault, and no one is so wicked that they count for nothing." That whole concept seemed right, but so outrageous to me, and even more so that gods and holy men were saying them.

And when you demonize your opponents, you get stuck with the devil yourself. Look at Alabama. They're so rigidly republican that they almost elected a child molester to the senate, because somehow slightly less than half of voting Alabamans thought that a child molester was still better than a democrat. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical about your beliefs, religious, ideological, or otherwise. It's healthy. It's how you protect yourself from charlatans who would use your beliefs against you. It's how you reach the truth, the real truth, the deep truth. When a mechanic doubts his engine and inspects it, that process makes the engine stronger, and so should inspecting your beliefs lead to stronger beliefs. You should never be afraid to question your beliefs, but you should always be afraid of people who say you shouldn't question your beliefs.

Hopefully your friend found this cult because they are in the process of seeking the truth, and hopefully they will keep seeking the truth until they can sense your friendship again.

i agree with this and would give you a like if i could, but you shouldn't seek truth. truth is something you can never know for certain and seeking it will always leave you with a conformation bias. instead what you should seek is that which is false as that once you know something is false you never have to look at it again. from there you build your world view based on that which you've yet to find false rather then that which you think is true.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

But that is why I say "seek the truth" and not "find the truth". There's always going to be more to the universe than a single human mind can comprehend. (heck, there's already more on YouTube than a single human lifetime could ever watch) But with every human lifetime, the human race gets closer to truth, to enlightenment, to heaven, to whatever. The best we can do is share our findings, our successes and mistakes with the humans around us, to keep humanity moving.

[TheWrongHands]

i was specifically addressing "seeking truth", don't do it, its what leads to weird cults and never gets you any where. take buddhism for example, they have been seeking truth for lets say around ~2000 years now, where has that gotten them? they have made very little progress of any sort on their own. the same can pretty much be said for any group of people who seek the truth, it never gets them anywhere. the scientific method on the other hand teaches that you should never seek truth but rather it's opposite, that which is false. that which is false is infinity easier to find and will tell you so much more about how the world works and i don't really think i need to go into their track record.

[Goryokaku]

Guess I'll throw my 2 cent in, it's not advice in what you should do but more to inform you about what probably happened.

Them joining a cult or "group" was probably done meticulously and unless you lived near them and interacted with them in person you probably couldn't do anything to stop it happening. Cults have this habit of isolating the people they recruit or choose to recruit. Those who do this are unfortunately very talented at it and it can and will probably separate them from their irl friends and family too. The only thing i could say as advice if you notice this is to try to contact their family to see if they can let you know what's happening but that might only make you look like a threat if they've never met you or heard of you. But at least it can let the family know of the possible issue. But if they were being recruited your chances of stopping it was very, very slim.