The SimBro Game (Brothel Sim)

[IxFa]

I HIGHLY doubt someone is going to go through the process of legal procedures for a sex game whereupon the returns on such pedantry and negative feedback won't do more than promote more people to the use of the music...

I don't think all that many people would hear about the case. The smart thing to do, for the artist, is to message SimBro's dev and explain that he doesn't want his music used in a product that is making money without his consent, then explain how they could work out a deal and if they don't come to an agreement he will be forced to take legal action.
That's not only extremely reasonable and fair, but if it did come to legal action no half-decent person would actually blame the music artist for doing that. You need to protect your work from being stolen. Maybe all he needs is to be advertised and he'll accept it. If all the fans of SimBro get directed to the musician, that's not so bad.

But you can't say it's somehow bad or unreasonable to not want people to steal your art and make money with it.
And before you say the music isn't what's earning the money:
- If the music didn't matter, it's no problem to remove it.

This isn't a huge mistake on SimBro's side either. They liked the music so tossed it in. Not everyone thinks so critically of something like that. No one in this situation is a bad person.


I didn't even realise this game had music. I think I turned it off day 1 of finding the game and forgot.

[Ungawa]

I don't think all that many people would hear about the case. The smart thing to do, for the artist, is to message SimBro's dev and explain that he doesn't want his music used in a product that is making money without his consent, then explain how they could work out a deal and if they don't come to an agreement he will be forced to take legal action.

And the artist will come out of that looking worse for wear. Ask the recording industry how much music is used of theirs when they shut down Napster or how much copyrighted music is used on Twitch when Monstercat does better work with less hassle.

The legal route is overly expensive and meant for publishers to make money, not artists. Been that way for the last 40 years. Using copyright to bully developers? Yeah, not a good idea to be on the wrong side of the issue...

That's not only extremely reasonable and fair, but if it did come to legal action no half-decent person would actually blame the music artist for doing that. You need to protect your work from being stolen. Maybe all he needs is to be advertised and he'll accept it. If all the fans of SimBro get directed to the musician, that's not so bad.

The former is bullying, the latter is a fair exchange. But if the artist tries for monetary compensation, that's not how free exposure works. You can ask for credits, but the minute you bully someone, you lose the high ground.

But you can't say it's somehow bad or unreasonable to not want people to steal your art and make money with it.

I sure as hell can when infringement of a copyright isn't theft in no way shape or form and what you're upset about is copying something with regards to fair use of it outside of what an artist would do with it...

And before you say the music isn't what's earning the money:
- If the music didn't matter, it's no problem to remove it.

And no problems in pointing out that's entitlement, not fair compensation.

This isn't a huge mistake on SimBro's side either. They liked the music so tossed it in. Not everyone thinks so critically of something like that. No one in this situation is a bad person.

Never said otherwise. I'm just not a fan of copyright when it's used by publishers to decide the rights of developers and is more a censorship and morality issue than one of the utilitarian concept it's supposed to be in allowing people to use cultural inputs without legal hassle.

[WonderGamer]

I don't think all that many people would hear about the case. The smart thing to do, for the artist, is to message SimBro's dev and explain that he doesn't want his music used in a product that is making money without his consent, then explain how they could work out a deal and if they don't come to an agreement he will be forced to take legal action.
That's not only extremely reasonable and fair, but if it did come to legal action no half-decent person would actually blame the music artist for doing that. You need to protect your work from being stolen. Maybe all he needs is to be advertised and he'll accept it. If all the fans of SimBro get directed to the musician, that's not so bad.

But you can't say it's somehow bad or unreasonable to not want people to steal your art and make money with it.
And before you say the music isn't what's earning the money:
- If the music didn't matter, it's no problem to remove it.

This isn't a huge mistake on SimBro's side either. They liked the music so tossed it in. Not everyone thinks so critically of something like that. No one in this situation is a bad person.


I didn't even realise this game had music. I think I turned it off day 1 of finding the game and forgot.

Using (formally-titled) Piano Hero as an example, they got sued by the publishers of Guitar Hero for unauthorized use of a similar (copyrighted) title format. In some cases they will serve you a cease & desist order (as they did in this case) to fix the problem before it goes to court, other times that will be taken care of in court before a lawsuit with a monetary value on it, the more sue-happy companies will go straight for the monetary gain.

Another comical situation would have been the matter between Putt-Putt Golf & Mojang, where they served Mojang with a cease & desist order due to user-created content of Putt-Putt Golf courses in Minecraft, based off of videos on YouTube, apparently thinking it was something official in the game.

Anybody who has uploaded to YouTube with music in their videos is going to know just how trigger-happy they are to flag your videos with copyright infringement claims; although sometimes they'll allow it with forced monitization for the company, other times your video gets force muted, other times you get hit with a strike on your account. It isn't too different with Twitch.TV, but at least the only thing they can do is mute your videos (and ignore your appeals)...

If anything were to happen here, I would expect getting sued for unauthorized use of the music, either forcing removal of it or suing for monetary gain under the claim of gained income through unauthorized use of copyrighted content; another possibility might be they force him to pay for rights to use the music. Of course that depends on whether they actually find it; if they do searches on the web for reviews of their game & this thread pops up in the search results because the game name was mentioned, they might end up running into it...

[Lucky777]

The minute you bully someone, you lose the high ground.

Using a legal right to "bully" someone into observing that legal right?
What an amusing concept.
It hints at a belief that there is something inherently unfair or unjust within the law itself, but what precisely do you suggest is wrong with Copyright law?

[L-money]

I noticed the game is now using music from Cosmonautica in certain areas at home. I'm just making sure that you're aware you might get sued by the copyright holder for using it, especially since you're gaining funds through Patreon on the game; this isn't a threat, I just want to let you know what could happen when you use content without the permission of the original developer/artist so you're ready for it should it come down to it actually happening.

Considering I'm the one making music for this game, I highly doubt the validity of this claim. If you're going to make a statement like that, one that's assumptive, then please back it up with actual proof. As it stands, the only track that I can find available is the extended trailer theme, which is not used in Simbro.

[IxFa]

Oh! Something original was made for it. Now I feel a little bad for muting it all the time.
Good on you for making a soundtrack.

[L-money]

Oh! Something original was made for it. Now I feel a little bad for muting it all the time.
Good on you for making a soundtrack.

All the music for it is original. As for not listening to it, not everyone wants to hear music while people fuck. S'all good, man.

[Ungawa]

The minute you bully someone, you lose the high ground.

Using a legal right to "bully" someone into observing that legal right?
What an amusing concept.
It hints at a belief that there is something inherently unfair or unjust within the law itself, but what precisely do you suggest is wrong with Copyright law?

Copyright law was changed in America within the 70s when the recording industry decided to monopolize music. The technology changed and that's the publisher's way to control the it. You hear about the MPAA or the RIAA, they only know how to try to make money through copyright law and bullying in licensing which has plenty of writeups if you want me to link.

Constitutionally, the concept is in Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution as follows:

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

By this reading, it's supposed to be a utilitarian concept, ie one about moving technology and the arts forward. It's not about money changing hands and that's fairly new to what copyright was supposed to be about. A short, small monopoly to secure a bit of income is a fairly new and recent patch to this download.

Just to show you some of the work on this, you can look at Disney who wants to keep copyright indefinitely:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120 ... tion.shtml

And culture disappears into a black hole when copyright is the culprit:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151 ... hole.shtml

In essence, copyright is used to kill culture, not enable its use. That's something I've been against for decades.

[WonderGamer]

The minute you bully someone, you lose the high ground.

Using a legal right to "bully" someone into observing that legal right?
What an amusing concept.
It hints at a belief that there is something inherently unfair or unjust within the law itself, but what precisely do you suggest is wrong with Copyright law?

Pfft! Do I even need to mention Trump? He has the mentality of a schoolyard bully & still he became President...

I noticed the game is now using music from Cosmonautica in certain areas at home. I'm just making sure that you're aware you might get sued by the copyright holder for using it, especially since you're gaining funds through Patreon on the game; this isn't a threat, I just want to let you know what could happen when you use content without the permission of the original developer/artist so you're ready for it should it come down to it actually happening.

Considering I'm the one making music for this game, I highly doubt the validity of this claim. If you're going to make a statement like that, one that's assumptive, then please back it up with actual proof. As it stands, the only track that I can find available is the extended trailer theme, which is not used in Simbro.

Sure sounds like the music in the game, but I'll double-check on that, seeing as I do own the game.

[IxFa]

Oh for the love of GOD please do not bring politics into a thread about a brothel simulator.
Someone tell me we have rules about going off-topic before anyone replies getting offended.

[Ungawa]

It's more or less about economics and how copyright can fuck up your Merry Christmas. All I did was answer the question posed to me. Nothing more or less.

[WonderGamer]

@L-money,
Went through 34 tracks in the Cosmonautica soundtrack, not a single one exactly the same, but there are definitely similarities in a number of them. I suppose the question would be where did you got your inspiration from for the music you created for the game? I'm not saying I disbelieve your claim, but you must've gotten inspiration for it from somewhere

[L-money]

@L-money,
Went through 34 tracks in the Cosmonautica soundtrack, not a single one exactly the same, but there are definitely similarities in a number of them. I suppose the question would be where did you got your inspiration from for the music you created for the game? I'm not saying I disbelieve your claim, but you must've gotten inspiration for it from somewhere

This is my first time even hearing of Cosmonautica. If you're going to accuse the team of "stealing" you should have all the facts first before making that claim. As to inspiration, Marune tells me what type of tone he wants for a track and I go on from there. I work in a variety of styles, and take issue with being called a thief. A lot of music tends to sound similar, especially with sampling.

[porne]

There are bands that give blanket permission to use their work in the creation of other content if you purchase it. http://www.fixtonline.com/ I've used them before for a thing or two.

[Lucky777]

which has plenty of writeups if you want me to link.

Yes, please do.
Perhaps in spoiler tags, as we're actually drifting quite far from the topic of the thread.
Or in the open, if you wish, because I'm not planning to continue discussing the subject in the thread, just to have a look at the material for my own idle curiosity.

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

It's not about money changing hands. [Emphasis Lucky's]

I'd have thought the source of that protection to the arts etc would be enabling the inventors and authors and such to make money off their inventions more successfully, and thus promote the activity of inventing - ie the boon would come about precisely THROUGH money changing hands. I suppose I could be wrong.
In the links provided, please include - if you have them - documented sources (ie, sources with case-law) to substantiate the underlined statement.

In essence, copyright is used to kill culture, not enable its use. That's something I've been against for decades.

Fascinating.
To me, nothing would seem to be more natural or sensible than for people to have rights to exclusively monetise the results of their own original works.
Those rights could of course be sold, or otherwise dealt with, as is the case right now.
Perhaps after a brief look at the data, I could come to more readily understand how this could possibly produce any differences of opinion.
Probably not, but I count the use of my time no loss even then, as not all actions to assuage idle curiosity actually need to result in any much greater insight.

[WonderGamer]

This is my first time even hearing of Cosmonautica. If you're going to accuse the team of "stealing" you should have all the facts first before making that claim.

I work in a variety of styles, and take issue with being called a thief. A lot of music tends to sound similar, especially with sampling.

Anybody could have made that error & I agree I should have double-checked that before I stated it. As for calling you a thief, I wasn't aware he had somebody making music for the game, so your claim is somewhat inaccurate; if anything it was directed at the developer of the game (and more information to avoid a lawsuit if it was accurate, rather than an accusation of theft), but again it was an oversight where I should have verified it before I said anything

As to inspiration, Marune tells me what type of tone he wants for a track and I go on from there.

It might be possible he's played Cosmonautica then, although it's also possible he might have just gotten inspiration from a number of different porno tracks (music played in the background of pornos). I might be able to hook you up with the soundtrack if you're interested in the similarities, but that's only if the hostility regarding this matter dies off (I've already admitted my fault in the matter)...

[L-money]

This is my first time even hearing of Cosmonautica. If you're going to accuse the team of "stealing" you should have all the facts first before making that claim.

I work in a variety of styles, and take issue with being called a thief. A lot of music tends to sound similar, especially with sampling.

Anybody could have made that error & I agree I should have double-checked that before I stated it. As for calling you a thief, I wasn't aware he had somebody making music for the game, so your claim is somewhat inaccurate; if anything it was directed at the developer of the game (and more information to avoid a lawsuit if it was accurate, rather than an accusation of theft), but again it was an oversight where I should have verified it before I said anything

Saying devs are stealing is pretty much referring to the team as a whole. You were wrong though, and you've admitted it.

As to inspiration, Marune tells me what type of tone he wants for a track and I go on from there.

It might be possible he's played Cosmonautica then, although it's also possible he might have just gotten inspiration from a number of different porno tracks (music played in the background of pornos). I might be able to hook you up with the soundtrack if you're interested in the similarities, but that's only if the hostility regarding this matter dies off (I've already admitted my fault in the matter)...

There's no hostility here, simply a desire for all the facts to be taken into account for statements that are made. From what I've seen as far as reviews go on Steam, it's not a game I'd find particularly interesting, but if you'd like to throw a track or two my way, I won't say no either.

[Ungawa]

@Lucky - Since this is about copyright, economics and such, I'd ask you to make a general thread whereupon I'll answer this in full detail. I could talk about this situation that's arisen with L-money and Wondergamer while also pointing out a LOT of the history of copyright and substantiate the claims.

That should get the focus back on Simbro, particularly when a new release is due out soon.

[WonderGamer]

There's no hostility here, simply a desire for all the facts to be taken into account for statements that are made. From what I've seen as far as reviews go on Steam, it's not a game I'd find particularly interesting, but if you'd like to throw a track or two my way, I won't say no either.

Send me a PM regarding this if you're interested. Best way for me to send them would be to allow you to download them directly from my hard drive via FTP, but I'll need a username & password you want to access the server with, as well as to know when you want to access it so I can put it up. I'll give you the address for download later, might be best to add you on Steam as that would be the best means to contact me when you want to access the server. I'll wait for the PM, we can go from there.

[NavigatorNami]

What the hell is going on right now? I just went down to the last pages and it looks like the British government in here.