Despair Labyrinth (RPG) Latest Release: Ver.0.09 (4/18/12)

[SpectralTime]

Did we not discuss this already? I'm working on it, little by little, ya know. So what about when we get a third party member, and a fourth (which is debatably a possibility as early as 0.9)? What about when one leaves and another new character replaces them? Does the second girl get included for EVERY H-scene too, even when there is only one rapist? How about the third? What if the third only stays in the party for maybe 2 patches before leaving again?

GAH, I thought we went over this... I'm the one who has to add the damn content, so just be patient and understand that it's taken me months to get the countless H-scenes up thus far. So how many people want to put a complete halt to the story until maybe next February to see Gwyn tossed in every single H-scene?

...

[/backpat]

[ShadowFax]

Aww, their just the newbie posters Kita. Let the rest of us shut down their ridiculous demands.

[Zodiark69]

Bah. I don't mind how long the wait. I got all the time in the world. Plus, he can bounce ideas off of us, and see how we respond to them.

[Gorbaz]

Did we not discuss this already? I'm working on it, little by little, ya know. So what about when we get a third party member, and a fourth (which is debatably a possibility as early as 0.9)? What about when one leaves and another new character replaces them? Does the second girl get included for EVERY H-scene too, even when there is only one rapist? How about the third? What if the third only stays in the party for maybe 2 patches before leaving again?

Considering it's taken me how many months to put up what I have so far... alright, let's do this! No new content until April while I work on putting Gwyn in existing H-scenes.

You know, I'm planning to have multiple characters in H-scenes, depending apon who is in your party, but not *every* scene. I've got it so that a particular scene will activate if one person is in your party or not, and others that will play out the same no matter who is in. Just have to be heavy with the switches!

So, what I'd say is, as it's your game in the end, put in event activations for multiple characters only where you feel it would benefit the story, or just seem out of place not to have them in. For example, the sailor gangbang would be a bit wierd if all three went for you while you had Gwen just standing around and watching

[BlueLight]

Just have to be heavy with the switches!

I'm glad i'm not helping you with the code. That must look ugly!

[Lucky777]

Did we not discuss this already? I'm working on it, little by little, ya know. So what about when we get a third party member, and a fourth (which is debatably a possibility as early as 0.9)? What about when one leaves and another new character replaces them? Does the second girl get included for EVERY H-scene too, even when there is only one rapist? How about the third? What if the third only stays in the party for maybe 2 patches before leaving again?

Considering it's taken me how many months to put up what I have so far... alright, let's do this! No new content until April while I work on putting Gwyn in existing H-scenes.

Legitimately suggesting just 1or 2 Gwyn-included scenes per update patch thar, sir.

Like I said, don't get me wrong: All the party members in all the H-scenes all the time is something I would NEVER dream of opposing, it's just something I think can take a
back seat to new story and its hopefully associated NEW H-scenes. If you burn yourself out retreading content that you've already created, nobody's going to be happy,
except the peeps who want to say that the reason there's no finished H-game as bawss as this is specifically because being 100% bawss 100% of the time is just too
much damned work for one human to do.
By mentioning that new story brings new H-scenes, I avoid compromising my hardline "more H is more better" principles, and I can sleep peacefully tonight.

[KITAmaru]

Gorbaz-
Nawwh, I actually got it. Pretty simple conditional branch, and yeah, the multi-character ones such as the gangbangs were ones I was going to work on first. It could even be convenient to just have a universal 'other party members are unconscious' paragraph IF total party members > 1 and so on.

Lucky-
Yeah no worries, I'm just trollin' the readers. >:P Business will resume as usual. It's my game, goddammit! HAHAHAHA!

[Lucky777]

... Hahaha

Oh man, got me good.

By the way, I noticed that Gwyn had a purity score as well.
When/if you DO have her and other party members added into the rapings, will there be a mechanic whereby their purity is corrected to the point that they enjoy it mentally as well as just physically, as it is for the Primary 8 Characters?

[KITAmaru]

Possible. They likely won't get 3-4 choices of selectable dialogue in the same way that the Primary 8 do though, but merely a bunch of low purity / high purity sayings.

[Lucky777]

Bawss.

[DragonRB]

Whoa.

I have to throw down a counter to some of your points, though. In this case, I think the narrative (which I agree, would be neat if it got a bit of fleshing out via incidental dialog) takes precedence over some of the traditional gameplay mechanics in dungeon crawlers, because they straight up wouldn't make sense. Despite the name, the Labyrinth that we're exploring is used daily as a home base by the Syndicate; it's not some long lost ancient ruins, or something. So having mazes/traps/obscure puzzles would, in my opinion, take me further away from the character because I'd be sitting there thinking to myself 'Do these guys need to do this every day to get to work? Seriously, how many random folks just never show up? How would they get quickly from area to area in the case of emergency, etc.' Maybe as an additional area outside of the base they could work, but as a part of it I think they would just feel kind of shoehorned in; put there just for the sake of having them or padding gameplay.

[Lucky777]

@ KITamaru: See, to me, going off of a design perspective, mechanics should always come before story and such.

You and anyone else reading can Tl:DR the rest of my entire post. What I'm basically saying is "See, to me, story and H should come before mechanics and such, and the mechanics should ABSOLUTELY not get too much in the way of either the story or the H."

As a note, in Project X I think more people complained because of the implementation of the attack itself as opposed to the sex vs death part.

EDIT: That's possible. I may have picked a bad example. Regardless, the simple fact is that there are posts mentioning how out of place death is in a "rape on loss" H-game, and I concur with those posts. The bottom line is very simple, and it has three parts.
1)Death is a turnoff except to fans of snuff. (I am not a fan of snuff.)
2) It has actually already been established that we are not going to kill the Primary 8 or "ruin them with extreme guro stuff" in this game, and that's the end of that.
3) I am in favour of it remaining so and not changing, so I oppose any mention of their deaths.

these games are pretty much called the favorites of the entire fanbase despite playing like crap (and their stories aren't exactly the most intelligent to follow either)

And this H-game is a favourite despite not prioritising mechanics.
Seeing a pattern? If ya ain't, it might be that mechanics and gameplay are absolutely fun, fine and dandy, but in an Hgame you need the H and lots of it, and in an FFgame ya need the plotz/character interactions and lots of 'em. Priorities.

One thing you should decide is whether you want the game's challenge to be based around individual battles or around long treks. If it's about the battles, you should jack up the toughness and abilities of enemies and put healing points around just as you are at the moment. If it's about going through large sections while managing your resources, you should use healing fountains more sparingly. One idea is to have healing at a cost; in mechanics terms, you may be able to refresh your HP at a cost of Purity or Gold. Perhaps there is a random chance of a combat encounter, or, in narrative terms, a chance of being captured and transported to another area. Maybe certain places will inflict status ailments on you for resting, or maybe they don't restore your parameters to 100%. Otherwise, players should know that they have money, and they have potions and elixirs to utilize.

I don't have anything against this except the places that inflict status ailments on ya, and the random encounters. Whatever you do, please remember that you're not aiming to make the game a pain in the ass.

Maybe have a section like the Gargoyle room where stepping on the wrong square teleports you back to the entrance of the room, and you have to map out either physically or mentally the proper path.

Sounds pretty tedious to be warped back to the beginning of the room, really, and moreso to have to memorise a path just to continue through a single room. Not a fan.
Map memorisation skills are already necessary, and there's nothing wrong with including them, but things like rooms that warp you back to the beginning are pretty annoying to me personally, I gotta say.

Even for an optional sideroom, it sounds like a bit of a piss off, but you could totally include it with an item at the end or something.

Narrative: Funny thing to mention, I know. Part of the game that interests me is that the Syndicate, for the most part, are working outside of the law because the law are apparent jerks (hence why they kidnap a noble.) What would be nice is to learn more about the world, perhaps with more bar or barracks sections. For instance, you can talk to a guy to get news from the outside world about a war that's going on, or that the plague hit, or that a person has gone missing. Later in the game, you use that knowledge to help tell the story to the player, i.e. the person that went missing is a person you stumble upon in the labyrinth. Perhaps you could even make it so that the player has to pay to obtain rumors, like having to buy a guy a beer or do him a 'favor'

Legit, finding out stuff in bar sections is pretty cool.
.

Puzzles: If the most important part of an RPG is getting the player to feel like they're in their character's shoes, then the second most important part is engaging puzzles. Reward players for exploring by giving them cryptic clues written on walls, slips of paper hidden inside books, keys hidden under beds, and passwords given out by drunken guards. Encourage players to take notes and to make maps to continue.

The second most important part? I'll go ahead and disagree with that. Hell, I don't place any importance on puzzles at all. Rewards for exploring are all right, though, and optional shit that you can find with careful attention to exploration doesn't get any hate from me.
I never bothered to fully explore the assassin training ground until the latest patch, and when I did, and found the Magician's Bracelet, I was pretty happy.

I wouldn't make notes/puzzles particularly necessary "to continue" though, if what one needs them to continue is the plot of the game itself. I've never been a big fan of puzzles, and if they're going to get in the way of my plot and my H, I go from not being a fan of them to outright hating them. Implementing it in that way sounds like a guide for making one of those boring oldschool games that separate you from plot progression with tons of wandering and shit. Not a fan. Not a fan. DO NOT WANT.

Can't say I have anything against throwing in some optional ones sometime, though, for like ... I dunno. An item or something. *shrugs*

Alternatively, offer players choices of how to accomplish tasks. One thing I enjoyed was that I could either seduce the soldier to find out where Gwyn was taken, or I could beat the information out of him.

Legit. I agree with the gentleman that having numerous available avenues for progression is pretty cool. You've already got the "fuck/fight" dichotomy going, and you DO have the necessity to grind to some extent to be a viable fighter, and a place where you can do so, and later on you'll have the "Aid Elynsor/Aid Syndicate" dichotomy going. I don't have any objections to make to this suggestion/observation, really. Hell, so far from that, I adopt it.

[KITAmaru]

Hm, interesting point about mechanics, though I'd have to respond with just a few points;
-The Rogues' Division is vastly different from the others in that its layout is pretty straightforward as an 'intro' to the game
-Certain puzzles, depending on how you execute them, can be time-consuming to make and require numerous switches and/or variables
-Spending too much time on these 'extra' mechanics rather than storyline or H-content isn't exactly what I wish to do nor am good at

The most important one is that a few people actually play this game for the H, and get frustrated when it becomes too difficult. Heck, when I play an H-Game, I'm not looking for solid mechanics--I'll go play a 'real' game otherwise. Provided, the battle system and what not should certainly be tolerable and the story immersive, but there's a varied line on how much effort is required to gain satisfaction. A GOR game, by design, is typically not one to reward an H-scene upon winning, but one upon failing.

I definitely understand the feeling of getting an H-scene after accomplishing something difficult, which can make it more enjoyable, kind of like a prize at a carnival game. That 'accomplishment' mechanic can be fun but is one I'm not going to base my game around, for the purposes of not making the game more frustrating than enjoyable.

Heck, I think the combat system is totally imba and overall easy as shit, but I STILL get people who say it's too hard (mainly the ones who just spam normal attacks even against bosses). Granted, I wanna tell some of these guys to stop being noobs, but at the same time, I realize that some of them probably just have their hands on their dicks and would rather go play Skyrim or something if they wanted a mechanic-heavy RPG.

I do enjoy games like Violated Heroine where you think 'How can I let this guy fuck my character...?' that is, only except when everybody bugs me about being able to screw the clown. ;D Kidding.

As a developer, there are some things you can expect from me in the future-
-A good storyline: By the mere premise of this story, I realize that I haven't given myself the best avenues for the most in-depth storyline ever, but I will work with what I have, and you can expect me to provide you with more than just a simple 'save the Princess' gig as the game goes on. I don't know if anyone has been paying attention, but there is a degree of foreshadowing that gives way to more potential twists in the main storyline. And you don't have to expect a generic, dark, 'people are evil omg what are we doing' kind of schpiel from me as the thesis of this game, 'cause I'm not like 16, when thinking that was 'cool'.
-More developed characters: Right now, characters might seem like archetypes of their particular class, but as with people, there is always more to be told, as well as some fun recollections along the way. I constantly think of ways that girls such as Sairyn or Lanie can be made to be more appealing through depth, and that I will execute in time.
-Well-written H-scenes: I'm still learning in terms of how to write a great H-scene, but as I said, in time, I'll have something I can be proud of. Presenting it from a female POV, especially for one who is not female, can be challenging, but it's part of the game and I'll work on it nonetheless. In terms of 'guest' writers, yeah, I'll probably stay away from that as it could be confusing, but there is exactly one person I trust in terms of writing H-scenes for this game, and I've a lot to learn from their particular writing style.

Everything else, I'm NOT making promises on, such as...
-Having everything done at once: I have to work and keep my GPA up as well, so don't expect me to be sitting in a basement and working on just this game ALL day, though I do chip away at it daily...
-Answering only your specific fetish (if I'm not particularly interested or if it's too difficult/annoying to implement via 3DCG): Different people get turned on by different things, and thus fetishes are as diverse as people. However, if you don't see what you're looking for, just casually suggest it in the DLaby Discussion Thread (link is in my signature), and EVENTUALLY we may touch ground on it.
-Taking in every single idea and trying to make it work: Everyone has their own ideas of what the ideal RPG or H-RPG should look like. I am content with the fact that my game will certainly not meet those standards, because ultimately, this will be 'my' idea of a fun H-RPG. There are many things I do wish to add in the future, but reality (the time it takes to execute these ideas) gets in the way sometimes.

[Gorbaz]

If I may say, I like to put the emphasis on the storyline. It just so happens that, in an HRPG, the story tends to feature H-scenes to a lesser or greater extent.

Take, for example, a favourite H-Game of mine, Brave Soul. On the face of it, it's a very nice, store-engaging RPG with puzzles, combat choice scenarios, and the like, but there is the over-arching emphasis on adventuring with particular companions in order to build up your relationship with them, which will then generate a progression of relationship scenes, finally ending in an H-scene just before the end, and a "What happened next" scene after, if you then beat the game

Unfortunatly, like Kit said, making puzzles and traps rooms, and causing you to memorise complex stuff migh be what some people are after as games, but it's a big turnoff for the developer who, depending on the size of it, can spend hours just mapping out where everything is, what it does, and if you can survive it, for one room in an environment of many many rooms.

[Lucky777]

Finished getting all the characters to the point where they can oneshot at least one of the chasers in the chambers reliably (Level 10, for most, and I didn't have to go above that as a top max.). I gotta say, making clubs (or some types of clubs, at least) raise Spi would be a pretty good idea for Irine, although she does barely manage to hold her own for the time being.

Thyme has a bit of a hard time oneshotting the bandits, even fully decked out with the magician's bracelet and the elder's staff, and even using Curse of water - despite the Bandits' water elemental weakness - but since she's supposed to be more about status effects anyway, I suppose I don't see too much of a problem with that. REALLY determined peeps could totally grind her to above level 10 for some better immediate attack power, but eh. I dun' wanna break the challenge of the arcane division, and I don't honestly have the patience to grind up to like level 12 or something on these fellows, so I took "Once in a blue moon sometimes oneshots" instead of "reliably oneshots" for her, against the opponents whose weakness she can exploit.

The assassins are the saving grace of Irine, Lanie nand Thyme, really, due to having 500 HP instead of the 550 of the other chasers. Irine's holy spells can't reliably oneshot 'em, but her archangel's lance can, and while Lanie's and Thyme's tier two water elemental spells only occasionally oneshot the Bandits and Turban dudes that are weak to them (Lanie's doing it far more frequently than Thyme's) both of those latter two casters can take the assassins in one spell pretty reliably.

As to Thyme's tendency to trivialise the bosses if ya make use of her more powerful status effects:
Making the status effects have a lower chance of sticking to some later bosses, and to some of the magician grunts (I mean hey, they know stuff about magic, right?) should render her significantly less OP.

That'll be all, I think. Lookin' forward to the next updates in due time, sir. Take it easy.

[KITAmaru]

Ooh, thanks much for the input. Noted!
Ah, I'm working on writing the first H-scene and just got done with a char intro scene. Pluggin' away... Just FYI, I'm moving this weekend so I'll probably have significantly less internet contact until it gets hooked up again. Cool thing is, for 0.08 you'll most likely see some degree of character interaction between two of the 'primary 8'... so stay tuned!

[Prelude11]

Hi to all!
Im playing this game for a while, and occasionally im lurking this thread but i signed up only today. (ya im lazy)
First i have to say, nice game! Actually im in loop for see all the H-scene with all the char on different purity level, it have a nice longevity haha.

So im here to write some suggestion that i thought while playing:

The most important make a pair of signal in the corridors for the slime part/garden to let know that are not dead ends, the first time i got stuck.
Place an enter door for the chamber or something to have the acces to it(maybe far in the game), i dont want to lose against an assassin every time : P plus i'd like to see cesca's (and the other girls) virginity taken by the mistress lololo
More mistress's "lessons"
A futa or a trap-crossdresser char
An H-scene with the toilets in the bathroom for the pee fetish

Obviously these are not request but only some imput, I know you have a lot of work to do
See ya!

[KITAmaru]

Alright, it appears as if I will have to add some kind of sign/marker or something for those side doors in the Crossroads... still trying to figure out what would be a good marker though. Originally I tried to avoid using the typical door sprite due to it looking silly considering the viewpoint, but I guess that I'll just have to cave if it's confusing people that much, since this is the second time someone has mentioned that they got 'stuck' around that area.

Further in the game, there IS an entrance to the chamber; it was actually implemented just recently in 0.07. It's also part of the Gwyn quest so you'll get to it eventually.

I'm not willing to do a whole watersports fetish unless I get a ridiculous amount of demand for it, to be honest--and even then, it's not something I'm quite comfortable writing about, so if you wish to see scenes involving urine or feces, this is probably not the game to go to for that. Can it be something as simple as a character relieving herself real quick (like in VH) without explicit detail, maybe... But any of that in-depth or on other peoples' bodies, no. I usually TRY to keep an open mind when it comes to writing stuff but that's where I'm going to have to draw the line.

As far as futanari and crossdressing, there is currently a futa in the Stalls, and I already have complete storylines involving crossdressers--both androgynous females and pretty boys, as I may have mentioned before. People seem to like the futanari very much, so you'll likely see her again, or at least someone quite similar in... bodily form. When it comes to fetishes, they will be covered in time--a LOT of ground was covered with just one patch, so all people have to do is be patient, unless of course it involves the exceptions I mentioned previously. So don't worry, each patch you will at least see one or two new things--it might not necessarily be YOUR thing, but it'll be more ground covered nonetheless! Thanks for posting!

[Lucky777]

Interaction amongst the primary 8? Cool.

Mentioning that makes me wonder once again just how the battles between them are going to be handled XD

Seriously, there are some TERRIBLE matchups I can think of. Capture Rhiannon or Asella as Lanie, for example?

Jesus christ, gonna get Bloodlust>Frenzy>Ultimate Cleave'd or Exorcised out of the water, at the drop of a hat. And if Thyme feels like using her quadra curse, then ... well. XD

I mean ... if they're a TON of levels lower than the Player character in terms of abilities, though not necessarily in terms of HP, it might be possible,
but if it's handled like in 7th Saga, where the enemy character essentially fights just like they fight on the PC's team, then ...
well.

Well.

GG NO RE

[KITAmaru]

Naw, it shouldn't be that bad. I'm going to start with the character's stats at a given level, then adjust accordingly based on difficulty / balance. Hopefully some adjustments can be made before all of that gets too ugly, heh.