Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

[Jlokison]

HartistaPipebomb had an interesting concept to begin with, it's a shame to see this project collapse from within but as those above said it happens a lot and this time it got messy.

It would have been nice if they had focused on the primary story line first, with a way to pay off the empire or appease them to let you and the guild go about your business, and then worked on the secondary quests for the elves and the ferals, and only after that started adding all the other new content they decide to add first.

All the upgrades to the art work, multiple changes to game mechanics, additions of new traits, new monster types and new npcs were kind of nice but they became an ongoing and continuous distraction from completing the original story of the game. Players can get off to porn anywhere online, you need a decent story if you want them to play your game and keep coming back to it. Good artwork helps but the original art for this game wasn't that bad compared to some other things I've seen, the multiple changes to it could have been a much lower priority.

Just because you complete your original objective, or the baseline plot, doesn't mean others wont still be interested in improvements and upgrades to the game, but if a developer tries to do too much up front or is not focused enough, things will fall apart one way or another.

[lunaark]

I'm sorry to be an idiot but i still don't understand -.- (i already read ths post).
If i understand :
-S-Purple and Subtank leave the team and they create another game ?
So why can't they continue this projet ? (i think it's because the animation and the art are copyrighted but i'm not sure)

Can someone tell me if i understand correctly or not and sum up the point of view of both side plz ?

Thanks

[shames90210]

The project is gutted because Spurple took all his art with him.

[evildumdum]

And add to that H-bomb has been looking for an excuse to bail for a while now.

[Runnko]

I'm sorry to be an idiot but i still don't understand -.- (i already read ths post).
If i understand :
-S-Purple and Subtank leave the team and they create another game ?
So why can't they continue this projet ? (i think it's because the animation and the art are copyrighted but i'm not sure)

Can someone tell me if i understand correctly or not and sum up the point of view of both side plz ?

Thanks

Side notes: Sadly there not so much info from other members of the team, because they decided not to talk about it. So we can only speculate on what happened from info of S-Purple and H-Bomb.
S-Purple story: http://s-purple.tumblr.com/post/147484294391/breeding-seasons-cancelation-my-side-of-the
H-Bomb story: http://breedingseasongame.blogspot.ru/2016/07/breeding-season-is-over-s-purple-has.html

Short story:
S-Purple don't wanna sell or let his assets to H-Bomb, because he thinks that H-Bomb won't do a single thing and will take money of patreons with his assets making them think that this game have progress.
H-Bomb - ?

Long story:
Both sides blaming each other on the fact that their project died. While it was clear that BS is dead, because pretty much all the team decided to leave, S-Purple decided to work on another project, after H-Bomb knew about it he decided that this is backstab and started threaten him.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

My Opinion: H-Bomb signed contract and started backing on it. It's lame and that not how you do business.

After that H-Bomb decided to be even more unprofessional by releasing S-Purple Contacts and Assets.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

H-Bomb story tell us that S-Purple was been slowing work by his ideas in Arts and other stuff. Better quote:

he has consistently made stubbornly unreasonable decisions borne out by a poor understanding of the actual management of a project, rejected my proposals to hire a project manager (something I promised to patrons and we've sorely needed throughout the entire project) or additional animators, made in equal parts incredibly greedy and capricious decisions, continually forced revisions of existing assets that prolonged the project by a massive amount (in some cases making us throw out months and months worth of work), and went over my head multiple times to violate my explicit directions. He has been, consistently throughout this project, a massive source of inflating the scope of the game in completely unreasonable ways, meanwhile being completely oblivious to the amount of work he has been forcing on others. And he's overall just a spiteful, unpleasant person who can't control his own anger in a professional setting or accept not getting anything the way he wants. I'm frankly ashamed that (1) I let him have his way over and over again throughout this entire project, and (2) that I've been going out of my way to cover for him this entire damn time.

S-Purple story tells us that H-Bomb were absent a lot of the time and haven't done anything beside playing Games and spending money of Patrons.

Even though I was made a partner in this project I was given no respect, and most of the time the majority of important questions I’ve sent to HBomb were left unanswered or ignored. All while he was inflating his own self importance (pictured below) by constantly claiming that he would take responsibility as the project lead and begin supervising the project properly. A major reason for the popular development of the game I believe is directly attributed to the months of HBomb’s disappearances, throwing the team onto its own resources, forced to do our own creative development and direction. I’ve always measured carefully how much work can be done per month, talking and negotiating with team members on their availability. HBomb himself refused to fully employ what animators we did have, a state of affairs I was not informed of until Vanilly announced her resignation.

For the past half year the majority of updates to the game were not actually major game changes but mere bug fixes, and these routine changes were not even done by HBomb, but by our hired coder, Fleet. The other part of the updates were always animations created by the art department, which the majority of our stream viewers could see live in development for months, 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week. HBomb repeatedly violated the trust of the patrons by giving fake deadlines due to the fact that he was incapable of actually coding things on time, an issue resulting from the aforementioned constant absence from the project and taking weeks long breaks every beginning of the month, sometimes even two or three week plus long breaks. The work done by HBomb was basically taking half a month long vacation, appearing at the end of the month and coding for a minimal amount of time after compiling all the content and bug fixes developed by other people, this is why the game’s actual story and mechanics progress was almost nonexistent.

The other day however, I was paid $9000, in addition to outstanding debts mentioned elsewhere in this document. I don’t intend to keep those funds, and I am contacting Patreon to see if it is at all possible to return those funds to the patrons of Breeding Season. Failing that as a possibility, then I intend to give them to our secondary coder Fleet, as both Vanilly and Subtank have turned down payment.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Reason of S-Purple for leaving and taking assets:

The reason I left Breeding Season team is that all the extra hours and additional work streams could not fix what was fundamentally wrong with the project. The slow programming, lack of supervision from HBomb, as well as his constant absence, pretty much doomed this project. I knew something had to give to make good on the spirit of promises made. I knew I couldn’t change HBomb as a human being to make him actually do his works hours. I have no rights to Breeding Season’s name or programming elements, only its art, my only realistic and legal option, the only choice available to me, was to cut him out of the equation and correct the situation, by leaving. I knew I could not leave the art in his hands, or the project would have simply died a slow death, taking a good chunk of our patron’s money with it. HBomb has all the programming, all the animation skeletons, and more than enough money to establish a professional development studio, and including the hiring of an entire team of artists full time, if he so chose, once I left.

My opinion: S-Purple have a point. If everything else belong to H-Bomb and all he need are arts and animation why not hire another artist instead of killing project?

Conclusion: BS is dead. Both sides to blame.

Author opinion on which story more reliable:

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

I can't buy H-Bomb story. I wasn't patron so i can't confirm the fact about unrealistic deadlines, but looking into updates history it's indeed only bug fixes and animations. No matter how H-Bomb tries to imply that S-Purple slow him with his artwork, i can't buy it, because being programmer - i know that creating functional far easier and faster than drawing assets for them. More over if i correctly understand H-Bomb were programmer for this project and S-Purple artist. Which means they have 2 different fields of operation. I can't understand what can prevent you from writing code even if someone tries to make more assets. I also can't confirm the story of S-Purple refunding people. I can't also buy bullshittery about no work done by S-Purple, because i seen pretty much only his picarto streams with Vanilly and Fleet. I rarely seen H-Bomb streaming and doing something. It also confirmed with the fact that this game have only assets and animation and zero functional at all.

[Ungawa]

Okay, I can't believe this... There's about $6300 going to the new project as of now and you're going to tell me that with the destruction of the project, THAT many people believe in someone willing to just destroy and sabotage someone?

I'm of the opinion that BOTH parties are liable and culpable for a failed project and don't trust either of them. I have far more faith in an organically grown project (such as BS Revival) than an artist with a chip on their shoulder and a failed businessman who wasn't strong enough to tell people he failed.

I'm stunned that there's such a need for a breeding simulator dungeon sim but I'm just in awe that so many people ignore the relationship that has just been destroyed while giving so much money to someone with a shady record at best.

I'm severely disappointed that so many people are being duped and ignore the warning signs until they get burned. Hopefully, the smaller projects can overcome such large marketing budgets from people more liable to make far more stable projects.

[Runnko]

People simply don't care that's why the give money to new project. There a lot of BS patrons who just want a game and if they couldn't get BS, they wanna Cloud Meadow, if H-Bomb decided to hire new artist he would be able to snatch some money too. So at this momment you can divide pretty much everyone in 4 groups: Donated and don't care about $, Donated and salty for $, Salty that game died, Watched, but really didn't care about game. Ofc, both H-Bomb and S-Purple blame to died BS, but i would say 30% S-Purple, 70% H-Bomb. I dunno about small projects. If you not gonna be like a dude that creating PUT, you not gonna make it no matter big or small team.

[ElPresidente]

Short story:
S-Purple don't wanna sell or let his assets to H-Bomb, because he thinks that H-Bomb won't do a single thing and will take money of patreons with his assets making them think that this game have progress.
H-Bomb - ?

His reasoning is shit.
He nukes the project to save the patreon people from a scam and then tells them that he will get them what they were promised, if only they donate to him (not a scam. For realz this time guys). This from a person with a history or ruining good projects.
So he claims that H-Bomb was lazy/mostly away, leaving him in charge of the project 90% of the time.

Meaning HE was the one making most of decisions and HE was the one to block hireing a project manager or more artists. And don't even start with "H-Bomb would oppose it". Schwig had the perfect leverage in the form of assets he could pull. He didn't use it. Despite the infulence he had, he didn't do anything to help the project along - he sabotaged it at every step. It should be obvious from Vanillys post that he was dumping his workload on her, as he was secretly working for his new projects.
A grade A dick.

[sogekik]

Short story:
S-Purple don't wanna sell or let his assets to H-Bomb, because he thinks that H-Bomb won't do a single thing and will take money of patreons with his assets making them think that this game have progress.
H-Bomb - ?

His reasoning is shit.
He nukes the project to save the patreon people from a scam and then tells them that he will get them what they were promised, if only they donate to him (not a scam. For realz this time guys). This from a person with a history or ruining good projects.
So he claims that H-Bomb was lazy/mostly away, leaving him in charge of the project 90% of the time.

Meaning HE was the one making most of decisions and HE was the one to block hireing a project manager or more artists. And don't even start with "H-Bomb would oppose it". Schwig had the perfect leverage in the form of assets he could pull. He didn't use it. Despite the infulence he had, he didn't do anything to help the project along - he sabotaged it at every step. It should be obvious from Vanillys post that he was dumping his workload on her, as he was secretly working for his new projects.
A grade A dick.

And it sounded like H-Bomb was having personal issues anyway, which is a fairly legitimate reason to take leave (though game development isn't the best field for breaks honestly ( your either meeting a deadline or a budget, both of which ultimately come down to time constraints)

To be honest its hard to say who is even telling the truth without corroberation from the others, but it sounds like they where both having some blame here. But it seems like S-purple put the nails in the coffin

[Runnko]

Short story:
S-Purple don't wanna sell or let his assets to H-Bomb, because he thinks that H-Bomb won't do a single thing and will take money of patreons with his assets making them think that this game have progress.
H-Bomb - ?

His reasoning is shit.
He nukes the project to save the patreon people from a scam and then tells them that he will get them what they were promised, if only they donate to him (not a scam. For realz this time guys). This from a person with a history or ruining good projects.
So he claims that H-Bomb was lazy/mostly away, leaving him in charge of the project 90% of the time.

Meaning HE was the one making most of decisions and HE was the one to block hireing a project manager or more artists. And don't even start with "H-Bomb would oppose it". Schwig had the perfect leverage in the form of assets he could pull. He didn't use it. Despite the infulence he had, he didn't do anything to help the project along - he sabotaged it at every step. It should be obvious from Vanillys post that he was dumping his workload on her, as he was secretly working for his new projects.
A grade A dick.

The fact that you don't like his reasoning doesn't mean it shit. Blaming someone for creating patreon page is something new. You know that donations made on free will right? The fact that he was been supposed to be in charge 90% times doesn't mean that he should do any decisions liker hiring someone, we also don't know contract between two of them, except Schwig freelancer contract. Why should he hire Project Manager if there H-Bomb? What purpose of H-Bomb in the project? He ain't coding, He ain't Managing. Spending money? Fair enough. You definetly didn't read it through regarding animators and artists

HBomb himself refused to fully employ what animators we did have, a state of affairs I was not informed of until Vanilly announced her resignation.

. So you telling that he should hire new, while the ones that they had weren't employed by H-Bomb and probably he hadn't authority to do so. Why he should use leverage? H-Bomb were author of BS? If he don't want to make effort for his project why Schwig should force him? Sabotaged it at every step? I don't know what you talking about it. There tons of assets and arts were done by him and vanilly and the only momment when he started to work were this one week, when everybody decided to bail out. Why should he stay? Clearly people who were working on this project were: Schwig, Vanilly, Fleet and Subtank.

[sogekik]

there are a few things that you've assumed just like everyone else ( I think, reading your English is not all that easy), firstly, neither of them have really talked about what H-bomb did, but he was one of the coders, he claimed to have had personal issue that where pulling him away from the project which isn't unfair, providing you can have someone fill the gaps.
he said that they where waiting on the art, which a lot of people have assumed means waiting for it before coding it, but likely means they where waiting to implement features, that there wasn't sufficient artwork for.
What S-Purple did was unprofessional, working on another project, and using employee's from the BS project for it is actually a pretty big deal, which put a lot of pressure on Vanilly in the art department as a result. keeping the assets which he can't use for anything else anyway (As they have also been worked on by others anyway) while being perfectly fine in the contract, is still fairly petty, it's like having a bowl of candy that you don't like, and not sharing it with the people who will eat it. though that is also partly H-bombs fault, he should have worded the contract so the project got the assets, and he got compensated; or something along the lines of: all assets created for the project (/under the pay of the project) belong to the project and will be accredited to the creator; which would also mean that S-Purples new projects assets would belong to Breeding Season, as they where made by an employee of the project, for that project not S-purples.

but ultimately it's irrelevant Who's at fault.

[muttdoggy]

Need I say any more?

[Ungawa]

Look, word on the street is that there will be a build of the new game fairly soon. So Purple will have to put up or shut up.

I'm not even following this story all that closely (I'm like Mercutio and saying "a plague on both their houses!") but we'll have to see the validity of the claims over time.

If H-Bomb doesn't get up and running with something, he's going to feel the burn from this regardless.

Likewise, for Purple. If this new build comes out and it turns into a finished game and not a cash cow, it's going to put the pressure on someone. So we'll see who.

[Lady_Shaw]

Anyone who followed this game from the start saw this coming a mile off, hell most of us jumped ship when Ferals were removed and the animation went 8bit.

The biggest evidence on how awful the direction went is done by simply comparing the content between now and back when it was a basic breeding game with simple flash drawn animation.
The current game (Having 3 YEARS! To develop) has a pathetically low amount of animation, barely any creature is compatible with the other, not even the basic catgirls.
The Game back in 2014 however had animations for nearly every combination of character, even male on male. The game actually had LESS animations the longer it was in development :s

Instead of adding guild quests, reputation, maps and dialog they should have added.. you know, the basic core concept of the game.

[sogekik]

I'd definitely, agree with that, though I did my best to ignore it, that is definitely true. it seemed like they had no real planning or direction and jumped straight into making the complex end product. I have a little experience starting game projects (never making it beyond concept phase unfortunately) and we've always been very careful to at least get a development plan in place, but it doesn't even seem like they really did that

[conspiracyhoax]

Still salvageable, look for an artist who'll want to take the reins. S-purple has a habit of not finishing projects, see it through with a fresh face, it might be the boost you need. It's not over yet, just a bump in the road.

I'll make Breeding Season vG out of spite! Give me a month or two

Honestly you could make an open source version of the current Breeding Season. H-Bomb gave us access to his dropbox, and since the company is officially dead, nobody is making money off of this so S-Purple would have a hard time with any legal action he might threaten against anyone involved in an open source BS. S-Purple's artwork wasn't amazing and would be easy to mimic or improve upon, meaning the community could easily pick up where the BS team left off. And no matter how much S-Purple might gripe about the project were it to happen, there's not much he could do about it.

[Dead2112man]

Is there anyone else who would think this would be better if it was just a locked thread so that it can slowly go away. Like I get it, you guys want to figure out who is right and wrong with what killed the game and how can this be different with this and that. but lets face it, to let us just get past this and not keep throwing more question as to why and what we should do. Just let it die, two other projects have been kicked up in the discussion board area to be better and replace Breeding Season we use to love, one taking off faster than the other at the moment. So lets just lock this up with maybe some one putting down a download link to what the last updated version for if some one in are future wonders, why a game that had over 100 tabs in it was so popular. Let them read the last ten or so tabs from when it died and let them come to there own conclusion on who's right and wrong. lets look now towards all the new projects people are trying to get out there, not a dead one.


also, I do have version 7.1, but if some one has a better version to put in like a dropbox or something to let people download form, please do so just to show what this game was like. If not, I will do so in a week from this post just so the game can still be there, well as long as my stuff exist on the internet at least.

[overlord5]

Is there anyone else who would think this would be better if it was just a locked thread so that it can slowly go away. Like I get it, you guys want to figure out who is right and wrong with what killed the game and how can this be different with this and that. but lets face it, to let us just get past this and not keep throwing more question as to why and what we should do. Just let it die, two other projects have been kicked up in the discussion board area to be better and replace Breeding Season we use to love, one taking off faster than the other at the moment. So lets just lock this up with maybe some one putting down a download link to what the last updated version for if some one in are future wonders, why a game that had over 100 tabs in it was so popular. Let them read the last ten or so tabs from when it died and let them come to there own conclusion on who's right and wrong. lets look now towards all the new projects people are trying to get out there, not a dead one.


also, I do have version 7.1, but if some one has a better version to put in like a dropbox or something to let people download form, please do so just to show what this game was like. If not, I will do so in a week from this post just so the game can still be there, well as long as my stuff exist on the internet at least.

the last version is 7.7.1 i believe
but i think it would be smarter to create a torrent for it, that way it isn't relying on a single person keeping the file around

[ElPresidente]

The fact that you don't like his reasoning doesn't mean it shit. Blaming someone for creating patreon page is something new. You know that donations made on free will right? The fact that he was been supposed to be in charge 90% times doesn't mean that he should do any decisions liker hiring someone, we also don't know contract between two of them, except Schwig freelancer contract. Why should he hire Project Manager if there H-Bomb? What purpose of H-Bomb in the project? He ain't coding, He ain't Managing. Spending money? Fair enough. You definetly didn't read it through regarding animators and artists

HBomb himself refused to fully employ what animators we did have, a state of affairs I was not informed of until Vanilly announced her resignation.

. So you telling that he should hire new, while the ones that they had weren't employed by H-Bomb and probably he hadn't authority to do so. Why he should use leverage? H-Bomb were author of BS? If he don't want to make effort for his project why Schwig should force him? Sabotaged it at every step? I don't know what you talking about it. There tons of assets and arts were done by him and vanilly and the only momment when he started to work were this one week, when everybody decided to bail out. Why should he stay? Clearly people who were working on this project were: Schwig, Vanilly, Fleet and Subtank.

NO, it is shit, because it's full of holes.

He himself admits that he was left in charge of the whole thing, then claims ignorance and "I didn't know" although he was in charge of the art department (and I'm not talking about H-Bomb vacations, he was in charge of that, period). How the fuck do you don't know? You're the one that's supposed to manage the art deparment. HE WAS IN CHARGE ON THE ANIMATORS, YOU IDIOT! Do you even know that being in charge means?
Not to mention Vanilly confirmed Schwig was dumping HIS work on him/her.

He had EVERYTHING to make it work - influence, position, leverage and enough control - and by his own admission.
Yet he sabotaged YET ANOTHER project (maybe you should look into Schwigs history, he ruined every project he was part of), he cheated everyone and now paints himself as a righteous fighter for the little people.
Don't know what's sadder - that people like him exist, or that people like you defend him.

[GoRepeat]

Watch the tones in this thread; you can disagree but don't be attacking each other personally over a difference of opinion on a porn game. Everyone get back to the hug factory or else I will lock the thread and bury it somewhere, cuz GoRepeat is 24% honey badger!