Brothel Sim Game

[Sismicious]

Well I'm not talking about you specifically, I understood your point of view, no problem.

I'm not going to post my work on a regular basis here because I'm already doing it on the devblog and on my tumblr.
Again, it would be the best for me if everyone could comment on the same place, but I know it's not something everyone would like to do. Just be aware every important decision or news is made there (I'm talking about me, not Meismike), not on the LoK forums.

[racso44]

So just for clarification's sake, there are going to be no younger looking girls like the recent demo? From this site I'm in the minority who likes it apparently so it's understandable, democracy 'n all that, but is there gonna be both or is it completely scrapped?

[Sismicious]

So just for clarification's sake, there are going to be no younger looking girls like the recent demo? From this site I'm in the minority who likes it apparently so it's understandable, democracy 'n all that, but is there gonna be both or is it completely scrapped?

Well, I think everything is possible, but it's a matter of time.
Strumpets has a very complex customization system (in term of design) because I have to create a body that can be almost everything. I have to think from the start how every body part will be welded together and how changing their shape will affect the rest.
A younger body means a whole new one, because the proportions are not the same. We can use tricks to make it look younger (eyes, boobs etc) but it will not be good.
Take Breeding Season for example : every character (creatures, not npc) has a determined design : catgirls, harpies etc. They also have one animation for each different types of other creatures. That makes everything "one-shot" : One design, one animation for each mating partner. The only thing that changes are hair, face and color (I summarize, don't hate plz).
So you can have a race for loli, another for muscled body type, another for chubby and so on.

In the case of Strumpets, it's completely different : the player has girls that are randomly generated. That means one random combination will be used for everything : every animation, any pose. In this case, we have to make a body almost perfect, meaning I won't have to redraw some parts for specific animations or views.
And that's almost impossible (take Playshapes body as reference : it's anatomically pure chaos). Obviously, you can't use the same body for a missionary and a backview doggystyle. But I'm trying to make the most of one only body, because of something very fastidious : the props.

Customization means we'll have plenty of items attached to the body. But every time I'll have to redraw some parts for a specific animation, I'll also have to redraw every item linked to that part entirely. Imagine that for the torso for exemple : Redrawing a torso means also to draw new boobs (each size), new clothes (each size too as we just don't scale), and export each color variation. That makes a lot of stuff.
That's why I'm trying to have the best body I can, because it will be used from the beginning to the end. So I better have something that please people!

This said, the younger look will be achieved by tricks, not with a complete new body I'm afraid...

[loshi1505]

This said, the younger look will be achieved by tricks, not with a complete new body I'm afraid...

personally I'd say work with and keep the loli design you had (with a few corrections like the fore arms and such) and focus most of your time on making a more adult body. that way you'd only have to worry about 2 body types and can achieve the other more niche' things by trick and general overlap error prevention... my 2 cents.... >_>

I'm fairly sure chubby is welcome but BBW OVERLY obese would be fronded apon... so chubby can be easily obtained by tricks... I'm not sure about height variations though... I would think that would be needlessly complex and only add to like 1 or 2 fetishes... as for muscles... again tricks can be easily used.... and I think that covers 90% of body type variations... I think... I mean you already have the loli design... it'd be a shame not to use it.

anyways keep up the good work and take your time and don't rush. accuracy beats speed after all~

[Zobo]

Hi there everybody.
As maybe some of you know, I'm the artist behind Strumpets. That's me you have to blame for this young look everybody seems to dislike!

Well, I doubt everybody does. One thing that these boards make abudantly clear is that there are different tastes, and computer generated imagery allows for things that would not be available in real life due to being outside human measurements or legality.

That is to say, fetish matters are way more common here than in population norm.

Anyway my hat is off to you: Taking criticism is one of the hard skills few master and one I value highly in people.

You aren't doing this modification in a void, however. This is a project that has existed for a time, and the models used so far
have attracted people who like that kind of thing to follow this project. If the previous versions of the game had used a less mature bodytype, I for example would not have followed the development like I do now, others might well have.

What makes me sad is that this kind of useful comments were posted here on the LoK forums and not on our devblog.

I am quite resistant to going to different places in the internet to do stuff. I'd have to check that place for replies, and I'm just too lazy to go everywhere. Sorry, but that's just the way of things.

Now, let's talk about business.
The girl body design is the thing I'm focusing to most on, because it is nearly the visual core of the game. If a game gives you the possibility of customizing your characters, the template used has to be perfect because every animation will be declined from it. Changing 1 part might make us redo every animation (and poor Meismike already had the experience of redoing a lot of stuff). So we better be sure of what we're doing, and it has to satisfy both us and you. That's why I'm focusing on it right now, at the beginning. When we'll finally be all happy together about it, it will be a monster step for the game, believe me.

What I'm going to do now :
I'm going to make a third attempt at the body template. I'm going to sketch it today and post it both on the devblog and here. Please, if you want to react about it, do it in priority here http://strumpetgame.blogspot.fr/. Let's start to build a good community there, focused on the game. As said before, centralizing the comments will make it easier for us.


Thanks again for you opinion, I'm doing my best to create something good.

I don't envy you that task

Having different sizes (height and width) will make aligning the actors difficult. I think the two main points for that alignment would be the interface point (that is, where the dick and the girl meet) and it's height. Then you align both actors separately in regard to that point.

Let's see a doggystyle animation: The interface area height would depend mostly on the thigh length of the woman. The maximum would be thight length, but if you bend the knee forward or backward you'd get shorter distance (yay for trigonometry), allowing for different leg length women to have the same height presented for the partner.

You could even have both actors have a maximum and minimum doggystyle interface range, and compare those. Randomize from among the valid mutual range and you'd get variation in the animation whenever it's shown.

That's how I'd do it if I wasn't so lazy, anyway.

Damn. That wasn't really about the body type...

[Sismicious]

Thanks you for your comments and appreciation. Feedback is something very important for me, as for many other like me. You know, it gives you the feeling people care a bit about what you're doing.

Let's see a doggystyle animation: The interface area height would depend mostly on the thigh length of the woman. The maximum would be thight length, but if you bend the knee forward or backward you'd get shorter distance (yay for trigonometry), allowing for different leg length women to have the same height presented for the partner.

You could even have both actors have a maximum and minimum doggystyle interface range, and compare those. Randomize from among the valid mutual range and you'd get variation in the animation whenever it's shown.

That's how I'd do it if I wasn't so lazy, anyway.

Damn. That wasn't really about the body type...

That was very, very interesting. But... it actually means nothing to me
Don't get me wrong, I just don't understand it. I think this can be useful for Meismike, my fellow partner, but this is too complex for me. The last time I opened Flash was years ago. And you can't imagine my actionscript skills... (hints : I know GoTo, that's it).

Anyway, new body approaching soon.

[Sismicious]

So, as promised, here is the third attempt at body template (and quick haircut).
The proportions are based on a lot of references I found and based on adult bodies. And to answer Zobo, the head ratio can vary depending on each morphology. I just like smaller girls more, it's just a choice.
Forearms are thinner, legs also. Feet are smaller too. Boobs are not "anime inflated" anymore, elbow has been corrected. The whole face has changed to look more mature (and frustrated because she knows what's going to happen to her).

I noticed people here tend to like the long-legs bimbo type, but it's just not my thing at all. I prefer cute than sexy.
Now the comments are yours! And don't forget you can also do it on our devblog by clicking here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Strumpets_Body_Test.jpg (87.17 KiB) Viewed 2110 times

[loshi1505]

looks good no complaints from me.

[racso44]

So just for clarification's sake, there are going to be no younger looking girls like the recent demo? From this site I'm in the minority who likes it apparently so it's understandable, democracy 'n all that, but is there gonna be both or is it completely scrapped?

Well, I think everything is possible, but it's a matter of time.
Strumpets has a very complex customization system (in term of design) because I have to create a body that can be almost everything. I have to think from the start how every body part will be welded together and how changing their shape will affect the rest.
A younger body means a whole new one, because the proportions are not the same. We can use tricks to make it look younger (eyes, boobs etc) but it will not be good.
Take Breeding Season for example : every character (creatures, not npc) has a determined design : catgirls, harpies etc. They also have one animation for each different types of other creatures. That makes everything "one-shot" : One design, one animation for each mating partner. The only thing that changes are hair, face and color (I summarize, don't hate plz).
So you can have a race for loli, another for muscled body type, another for chubby and so on.

In the case of Strumpets, it's completely different : the player has girls that are randomly generated. That means one random combination will be used for everything : every animation, any pose. In this case, we have to make a body almost perfect, meaning I won't have to redraw some parts for specific animations or views.
And that's almost impossible (take Playshapes body as reference : it's anatomically pure chaos). Obviously, you can't use the same body for a missionary and a backview doggystyle. But I'm trying to make the most of one only body, because of something very fastidious : the props.

Customization means we'll have plenty of items attached to the body. But every time I'll have to redraw some parts for a specific animation, I'll also have to redraw every item linked to that part entirely. Imagine that for the torso for exemple : Redrawing a torso means also to draw new boobs (each size), new clothes (each size too as we just don't scale), and export each color variation. That makes a lot of stuff.
That's why I'm trying to have the best body I can, because it will be used from the beginning to the end. So I better have something that please people!

This said, the younger look will be achieved by tricks, not with a complete new body I'm afraid...

I got it and looking over what you said it makes sense that you want a certain baseline. Although I do prefer the younger looking and cuter girls. Also that sounded... Nevermind

Anyhow looking at the new third attempt I think it's a nice middle ground. It's not overtly sexy and leans a bit more towards the cuter side. Still once, if you ever feel like making those other "races". Major props from me.

[Lucky777]

If you want majority votes, a poll is a pretty good idea, so maybe at some point Meismike could make one.

I noticed people here tend to like the long-legs bimbo type, but it's just not my thing at all. I prefer cute than sexy.

If the artist is going to have trouble making what we want to see, then you could avoid wasting his time and get another one, or stick with the original models.

As to the newest model, I like her apparent age better here, but overtly sexy long-legs bimbos with anime-inflated tits are what it's all about, mang.

[Sismicious]

If you want majority votes, a poll is a pretty good idea, so maybe at some point Meismike could make one.

Yes, that's a good idea. We made one for the first new body template. But again, just making a vote did'nt work great as nobody mentioned or commented about the young look.

If the artist is going to have trouble making what we want to see, then you could avoid wasting his time and get another one, or stick with the original models.

The fact is I indeed have trouble to figure out what the majority of people like the most, mostly because they don't express themselves in the first place, and wait for the final result to say they don't like it. I know it's often like that, and the one who comment are not always representative of the silent mass, so we might want to find a balance between polls and self-decisions. As someone said, we need to move on at one point.

As to the newest model, I like her apparent age better here, but overtly sexy long-legs bimbos with anime-inflated tits are what it's all about, mang.

I'm glad you like it! I'm still hoping for a more natural look. I'll fight for it with my blood till the end.

[Zobo]

A clear improvement, I must say.

The bodyshape seems to be a pear (reference http://www.styled247.com/body-shape/ ) which is a something decently common. Of course it would be good if you could include also hourglass in there, maybe even others. For example reverse triangle would probably be good for those liking athletic bodytypes and so on.

The breasts, well, they should vary a great deal. I don't know if you want to have different breast shapes as well as sizes?
http://www.channel4embarrassingillnesse ... t-gallery/ shows and interesting variance (not always attractive).
(http://www.melbournebreastcancersurgery ... pples.html shows not only breast but nipple variance)

As for the face, I think it is an acceptable but not very beautiful- the forehead seems overly large. I don't know how ambitious you feel about making the variations, but http://www.goldennumber.net/facial-beau ... den-ratio/ might be and interesting read since it has some numbers to ponder. Not that you should only try to make the most beautiful bodies and faces, but if the numbers on a girl were reflected with the actual visuals of it...

As for the gibberish earlier, I was basically pondering on how you could animate the sex acts when you may have different sizes of actors with different size body proportions. E.g. you like more normal girls while leggy ones seem very popular. If you should add males in the game you should probably have ones with long legs and short ones as well. If you then consider how they would position in the sex act, obviously the important bit is the part where the two meet.

Now, if you can vary this height for both actors independently, you can work with different bodysizes because you can find a height that works for both actors. In reference to the earlier doggystyle, the woman can go as high as her thighs are (or more if she stands up), but can lower her butt by moving her knees back or front, so her thigs are angled front or back.

So, if your animated girl can do her half of the act with her ass in differing heights and so can the male one (*) you can make the animations work with both dwarves and extremely tall guys. And even with average height guy you could have variances in the act because you'd have a range of heights that work and thus can randomize the scene a bit.

Hope I explained it with less maths and more clarity.

Z.

* = the one with the penis, strapon or the like.

[deadnotsleeping]

So, as promised, here is the third attempt at body template (and quick haircut).
The proportions are based on a lot of references I found and based on adult bodies. And to answer Zobo, the head ratio can vary depending on each morphology. I just like smaller girls more, it's just a choice.
Forearms are thinner, legs also. Feet are smaller too. Boobs are not "anime inflated" anymore, elbow has been corrected. The whole face has changed to look more mature (and frustrated because she knows what's going to happen to her).

I noticed people here tend to like the long-legs bimbo type, but it's just not my thing at all. I prefer cute than sexy.
Now the comments are yours! And don't forget you can also do it on our devblog by clicking here.

Strumpets_Body_Test.jpg

I've been coming to this site for years, and just now signed up for an account to make this comment because it is my favorite game on the site. Seriously - you've done awesome work here!

I REALLY like the long legged, balloon boobed body type that so many games around here use. I don't think you can go wrong with it. That said, I really appreciate this most recent, more realistic style, too! I don't mean the 1st remake - that thing was awful (sorry, just being honest). This fresh remake reminds me of the body shape of a recent ex of mine, but with bigger boobs... and with an actual thigh gap It's pretty damn hot, good work Sism!

Someone on here mentioned that you can't please everyone so just please yourself, and I agree with that. As long as you really like your work, others will too. But because you want feedback, I personally don't care for futa or foot play. At all. I avoid those kinds of scenes wherever I can. I would love to see more animation types though, especially cumming (both male and female!). I don't really care that all the customers are weird floating dicks, either. Sweaty, hairy male buttcheeks are not what I play this game for!

Additional scenery & background changes on the streets would be nice, and the use of different props would be cool. Stuff like banging on the bed or chair in the bedroom, against a lamp post or car on the street, bending your secretary over her desk, BJ's on a toilet in the bar, stuff like that. I hate to think of these poor girls getting road rash from literally working the streets!

The recent addition of the easier to use training was great. Another awesome feature that another game uses is automatically selecting the best girl for a client. You could incorporate it by having an option to "let the customer pick" (and getting a penalty if you don't use their choice!), or even lining up all your girls on one screen so you don't have to click through them all. Once your ho house gets into the double digits the clicking through gets old.

One little gripe - the " customer preferences" don't seem to work right. I'll often get a customer requesting a girl with a certain attribute (partially translucent magenta nipples or whatever), pick a girl that looks like she has that attribute, but then don't get credit for it. It's very minor, but figured I'd mention it.

[Sismicious]

Zobo > Thanks for the explanations. And the references! I already made some boobs variations last night, you can check it here : http://sismicious.tumblr.com/post/129020448182/some-like-them-small-other-like-them-big-but-in
The forehead thing you see might be because I made a super fast haircut without really thinking, here is a better one :

hair.jpg (48.54 KiB) Viewed 2046 times

I hope Meismike will check what you said soon so you can talk about it!

deadnosleeping > Thank you a lot for your comments, that is very nice of you! Your ideas are great and I wish we could implement them soon. I work everyday for Strumpets but as everyone can see, things take time! But yeah, animations are an important part we need to focus on soon.
Backgrounds also are in my mind, but will come later because I have big plans for them!
And finally about the customer preferences thing, I'll let Meismike see that too

[Zobo]

Well, the face will of course look better with hairstyle that is modelled to that face. But you really shouldn't do that, you would not
be able to have different hairstyles and you want to have them.

I did a bit of modifying on the earlier image of yours, moving the eyes, nose and mouth around. The top left one is your original face.

Quick face variations on the face

Strumpet face variations.jpg (25.94 KiB) Viewed 2040 times

Not all of them are equally attractive, but having a system where the face is not strictly set is probably to the better for you. You want to construct the face from elements, not have A face, I would think.

Also, this doesn't in any way take into accout people having different shaped heads (oval, round, heart..)

Also, you could make different images and have people rate them, so you'd get an idea what people like. Or better yet, have the game configuration do that to each player, so they would get in their game what they themselves consider beautiful to be the face of the girls the game says are beautiful.

Also, I claim no copyright on the image or anything. It's all yours, Sismicious.

Cheers,
Z.

[Sismicious]

Thanks for your advices
Don't worry, though, I always make each element separated. So there will be different noses and eyes. There is no real need for different mouthes or eyebrows because they will be used for facial expressions or bjs so it will be better to avoid too much complexity.
As for the hairstyles... I already tested a few

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Haircuts 2.jpg (83.72 KiB) Viewed 2038 times

[deadnotsleeping]

I hope I'm not alone when I say that the "snotty little bitch" face you're using for the current model is friggen hawt. Looking forward to what else you come up with!

Also, I totally understand that these things take time. I've done my fair share of pseudo-similar projects, but to be fair they were all my fulltime job. I couldn't imagine doing something this size on the side.

[Sismicious]

I hope I'm not alone when I say that the "snotty little bitch" face you're using for the current model is friggen hawt. Looking forward to what else you come up with!

Also, I totally understand that these things take time. I've done my fair share of pseudo-similar projects, but to be fair they were all my fulltime job. I couldn't imagine doing something this size on the side.

For the glory of the boobs

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

oh lord.jpg (301.88 KiB) Viewed 2006 times

[Sismicious]

Hi,
I know a lot of people told us early in the game development it was weird to only have floating penises for the girls.
Well, here is the long awaited... male body.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Man_Template.jpg (89.33 KiB) Viewed 1973 times

[VintageBass]

Why censor it?