Would you like a speaking Krystal ?

[trunks2585]

sorry dollspit, i think i misunderstood the question when i read how renara responded to it. however the discussion is going more into selecting your fetish choices than just if you want krystal to have dialog lines.

[Ariel]

I think everyone has different reasons why they like the game and what they imagine Krystal is thinking. I think it is better to leave it to everyone's individual imagination rather than making her say things since you won't ever be able to make enough options to please everyone.

[iKurby]

I understand that you think this is a decision for the masses, and the voice-acting seems to be what the majority wants, but I just think leaving dialogue out would leave more to the player's imagination. Having Krystal be the "silent hero"type would allow each player to imagine her in their own way.
That's just my 2 cents.

For the fetish avoiding things, I would either have it where you choose not to have a certain fetish at the beginning, or you make choices during quests as you go along. It doesn't have to rely on dialogue.

[nebrose]

meh i'd like to see what the game enhancers (since playshapes desighed this thing already they can't really be called game designers) comeup with for the texts, besides, the game is already making krystal look slutty, why not amp it up a bit with some dialauge?

[magnusadder]

LoK "Development" Team... i am really on the fence with this, i wouldn't mind the text or even voice acting, unless its just there to make kyrstal seem more of a slut... trust me nothing any one can come up with can match what i all ready can with out it... if it allows for choice in effect of scenes or sexual acts as well as with the way the hot vixen acts please put this in.

[trunks2585]

I understand that you think this is a decision for the masses, and the voice-acting seems to be what the majority wants, but I just think leaving dialogue out would leave more to the player's imagination. Having Krystal be the "silent hero"type would allow each player to imagine her in their own way.
That's just my 2 cents.

For the fetish avoiding things, I would either have it where you choose not to have a certain fetish at the beginning, or you make choices during quests as you go along. It doesn't have to rely on dialogue.

it wouldn't be voice acting just text dialog. And while there are more votes for it there's several maybes and nos as well. Like i said i get the feeling we'll do some lines, just a little experiment to see how people react to it.

[dandan]

how about adding some humor outside the sex scenes? Or maybe putting lampshades hanging from time to time.

[nebrose]

if the final copy sucks to me then i sugest that this idea is not in the 0.4 version... if that works, i mean make a back up with out the alternate texts then put the two up for the people to decide that sound fair?

[Elgregou]

I think many people misunderstood some of my ideas.
Not all of the sex scenes could be avoided, in fact this choice could be very rare. The fact is that, by selecting what Krystal is saying or thinking, it could lead to small variations in the event.
Imagine the current "Make out" scene, with the lizardgirl and the Sharpclaw : Krystal would not be able to avoid it, but don't forget that it is her first time with a woman !!! Do you think she's just jumping in the action like this ? Some dialogs before she is forced to make out could explain WHY she will do this. And that's the point here : before accepting to kiss/fuck with the lizard-girl, there could be choices that would show Krystal's charcater, like :

1) Oh my ! She's so beautiful ! It's decided. I want to become a lesbian, , and I want her to teach me how !
2) Mmmmm, a girl ? Why not ? I've always wanted to try !
3) If I don't do what they want, I'll not be able to find Fox. Must do it....
4) It's horrible, I don't want it, nooo !

Given what choice the player does, the dialogs could change, and maybe a little of the sex event (like, Krystal's moaning with pleasure or, on the contrary, screaming with disgust). Maybe her face could be altered, to show if she has pleasure or not.
In the 4) case, I don't want specifically a Krystal who AVOIDS the scene, but a Krystal who is forced ! In that case, we can imagine that she cries, has a disgusted grin on her face. The scene could even be altered, and so the kissing between the two girls could be changed by the lizard-girl face-sitting krystal, forcing her to do what is repulsive for her. For the choice 1), roles could be changed. krystal becomes more dominative and she is the one who is face-sitting the lizard-girl.
We could also imagine that some choices would provide different items for Krystal. Let's take again the exemple of the Make out scene. After choice 1), the lizard-girl could say that Krystal is more of a mistress than her, and she would give her a latex suit. For choice 4), the Sharpclaw would say that he loves to hear her cry, and that even if she don't like it she will be a slave. He would dress Krystal with chain on ankles and wrists.
That's just small examples who shows that, even if the story path is not totally changed, small variations could be brought.

After that, of course, if (and I say IF) the team has enough courage to do so, the story could lead to multiple paths given what Krystal's chose in previous acts. Either she is a slut, or a sex-maniac, or a shy slave crying for her position. But the least that could be done is adding variations in dialogs given what she has become thanks to the player's choices in her thoughts and dialogs.

[trunks2585]

once again, you are asking for a lot of things, is sounds like the 'mass effect' sort of gameplay mechanic from how kal discribed things. i don't expect that amount of level to occur, or if it does, not to be in any of these early versions.

we could probably add a few of these 'multiple choices and what you pick alters the scene' ideas but it wouldn't impact the overall story at this point in development.

Also i really hope those are just quick not thought out examples, because those lines you typed up for her choices are over the top cheesy, cliche, and poorly written for her character. I have no problems writing up choices that could lead to her being more of a slut, but for the love of god i'm going to keep it somewhat believable to her character's personality.

p.s. i'm still against the massive text choices.

[nebrose]

Who said it has to massive? i say we should just have a path A and a path B and these paths intersect at multiple places... butlater on we could add a path C.... then again this sounds like way to much work for you guys

[Elgregou]

once again, you are asking for a lot of things, is sounds like the 'mass effect' sort of gameplay mechanic from how kal discribed things. i don't expect that amount of level to occur, or if it does, not to be in any of these early versions.

we could probably add a few of these 'multiple choices and what you pick alters the scene' ideas but it wouldn't impact the overall story at this point in development.

Also i really hope those are just quick not thought out examples, because those lines you typed up for her choices are over the top cheesy, cliche, and poorly written for her character. I have no problems writing up choices that could lead to her being more of a slut, but for the love of god i'm going to keep it somewhat believable to her character's personality.

p.s. i'm still against the massive text choices.

Ok Trunks. Enough play. Time to really say what I think.

Since the beginning, and because you're saying it every time you can, you're against written lines. I know it. I somewhat accept it. It's your opinion after all.
But when you're tring to find an excuse at every moment to avoid doing these dialogs, it's just... I don't know the word in English so I will say it in French : "Mauvaise volonté".
I created a poll where (for the moment) 19 persons want written lines with multiple choices, 10 are unsure, and 12 don't want it. And what did you say earlier ? "Well, it seems that many people want written lines, but many people don't want it too..."
So let's calculate a little, mathematically speaking :
- 19 want it
- 10 are unsure : that means we will add equal numbers to the two parties (polls work this way). So 5 want it, and 5 do'nt want it.
- 12 don't want.

Speculation of people wanting dialogs : 19 + 5 = 24
Speculation of people who don't want them : 12 + 5 = 17

So, if you're running away from the reality of the poll, why do you ask for one ?

You seem to have your ideas, so as the rest of the team. And that's alright, after all it's your game. But what is the purpose in creating a forum if you're not willing to change your positions ? Let's take the game SlaveMaker as an example (I suppose you know it). Cmacleod, the actual developer, is listening to ALL the suggestions and has often remodeled the game to please the players, adding fantaisies, changing the core of the game a LOT of times because some aspects were not liked by the players.
What I've suggested and what seems to be approved by the majority is not, like you say, a MASSIVE work. Come on ! You only have to write some lines. Not a roman, not a novel :SOME LINES !!! Why do you want to be in charge of the script if you're not willing to do more work ?? Why ? The actual Legend of Krystal has near to nothing in script. Something like 20 lines, even less. I didn't have the feeling to follow a story, but instead I felt like I dragged krystal from one sex scene to another, without logic. In fact, if there was an option to see each scene without playing, it would make no differences.
So yes : you can complain, you can argue that "it will be a lot of work to write some dialogs, to IMAGINE a story". But if you don't want to work, let someone else do the job, point.

After all of that, I know that the game is currently a bêta that it is far from a 1.0 version, and I really don't know what you are planning (maybe the script you're currently writing is a 10 pages thing, but I doubt it). But if you're not willing to put some effort into the gameplay, the script, the options, and finally the game, if you're saying from the beginning "Well, it will not be a very complex game, we will not do something too hard".... abandon it !
Moreover, what I've suggested is really not too hard to implant in the game. Some choices, some new scens unlocked by these choices, some written lines, and some items. THIS IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE !

So let the poll continue, have a reunion with the rest of the team to decide what you will have to do given the results, and if you're not willing to do a bit of work, give up the project.

And for your instance, I'm French. I'm not speaking or writing English to the perfection. The examples I've wrote before were, like it is said, just plain examples. I will not write an over complicated thing to expose my suggestions. It's just for illustrating it, to show readers on this board a situation. Maybe the lines are cheesy, poorly written, but I challenge you to write something in a langage that is not your native langage.

"J'aurais très bien pu m'exprimer avec toute ma verve française pour produire un texte plus élaboré et fluide, mais évidemment cela n'aurait pas eu beaucoup d'intérêt si je n'étais pas compris"

Finally, good to you if you"re willing to make Krystal a slut believable to her character's personnality. The only problem, currently, is that when I play the game I see Krystal as a sex doll who jumps on everything without complain. Build her personnality, go ! But for the moment, don't say that I'm writing clichés when the situations in the game are so... common in the porn industry.
The General Scales who says : "Ah ah ah bitch, yes, suck my dick and drink my cum"... Sorry but I don't feel like taking lessons from you for the cliché thing...



Well this is it. I really don't want to troll or give the board a bad ambiance, but I think that some things had to be said. I will not post anything of this sort in the future, I just wanted to say that you REALLY need to change the way you're thinking about the game, and the way you're listening to some of the suggestions on the board.

Sorry to be a pain in the ass.

[trunks2585]

first on a side note, you picked the wrong day to call me lazy. I'm in my last year of college as an art major, i'm doing comic book work for my highest art level course, along with working in ceramics where any given assignment will require 12-18 wheel thrown forms in about two weeks, and i'm also in an art history class and a criminology class.

second, i'm sorry if i've been confusing you, but here's a little news for you, me and other development team members have talked, i said i'm willing to give krystal some dialog, and that's what the other team members agree on. as you youself said 'a few lines'. What it looks like you want is every sex scene interaction to have choices. There is a big difference between a few lines and branches choices for everything, not to mention we are in the early stages of development of version 0.3. could we end up making a bunch of branching choices? sure we probably could, but i'm not the only one here that doesn't think that's not likely to happen. You claim it's not a lot of work, most people on the team will disagree.

the polls only tell you so much, yeah the majority is for giving krystal lines and multiple paths to different scenes and endings, that's why i havn't disregarded your idea. there's also several that arn't sure or flat out against it, we don't know how everyone will react to it, that's why we do a bit of an experiment and see what people think once they can really see what this idea will look like in the game. I can't just ignore the people that are against krystal with dialoge especially when there are as many against it as there are. It's just like with the herm poll, we can't just ignore the people that don't want to see a herm krystal.

also I'll admit i havn't really written anything for this game so far. I helped QQ get some dialog for his scene ideas that's it, i'm waiting to do any real work for when i see the revisions being made to the game design incase things do get changed around. I didn't write any of the current dialog so spare me the 'don't feel like taking lessons from you for the cliche thing...' that wasn't my doing.

[nebrose]

hey i'm no expert on making any kind of flash game, it sounded like a lot of overly complex stuff to me and that's what i said.

[Kalypso]

Instead of making you suffer with my lengthy response Elgregou, I'll send you the basis of my reply, and you can chose whether you want to read it or not--its got the proof there to everything I'm about to say:
1. You meant bad terms or bad taste by "Mauvaise volonté," no? You've sort of caught us at bad terms by your attitude in the text. Remember that Team LoK is a "Team" and we all stick up for each other. In the roughest way I can say this, in my terrible French, "vous ne voulez pas être à la "mauvaise volonté" avec nous, si je ne suis pas mépris?"
2. Your poll speculation is incorrect. If you've got two "Yes" votes vs. a "No" and a "Not Really," you get 22 votes for No/Not Really, and 20 votes for Yes. So by slight majority, people don't want Krystal to speak.
3. Its too hard to do and way to much work. The whole team agrees with this, its not just Trunks. A few lines of dialogue would be okay, but that's it. A system determining the trails of the game? You can't imagine the difficulty.
4. Putting this in delays v0.3 even further. And this system would be hard as hell to make. Its a standard feature, and most if not all standard features will be implicated in the v0.3 engine.
5. Tone it down. Remember who's making the game.
Wow, what a lengthy reply, Elgregou. I'm impressed by such a reply from someone who has such trouble with English, as everything is very organized, and you've got some vibrant syntax in there too--in the form of a persuasive English essay.

Okay, you've coming across as quite the threatening one after I've read the first sentence its almost as if you're in a talking game at this point, simply wagering--putting the stakes high and hoping for as much as you can grab--which does put you at bad terms with us over at Team LoK (is that what you were looking for, instead of "Mauvaise volonté"), especially when you start playing against us. Then, as you continue, you play the smart aleck, as if attempting to win your way through demoting the terms of others in some form of "revealing truth." Luckily, I'm not offended, I've no reason to attack you, you've no reason to attack me.

But, I can tell you, that you're wrong about the poll results. You can't have three options for "yes" and one option for "no." Its a balanced, fair poll. In that, you've offered four options. Two of those options are "Yes," one is "Maybe, though it won't be a good addition to the game," and lastly, you have "No." So, in all fairness, "maybe" in the terms you've described, is actually toward the negative, so it can't be counted as a "yes." Its like if someone invited you to a party, and you say "Maybe, I dunno, we'll see." Are you going to go? Obviously not. "Maybe," in all reality is "Not really." Otherwise, your "democracy" is as manipulative and controlling as Jim Henson, putting on a show for all of us, pretending to forget what really lies up the rear of another inanimate animal. It doesn't matter if nobody responded to your second "yes," you've got two options for yes, and one options for "No."

So your poll results should read "Yes = 20," "No/Not Really = 22." Which means that, by a slight majority (so far), people don't want lines dialogue in Krystal. That's the unfortunate reality.

Actually, the team finds this system to conflict with the current system, and most of us would prefer just a few lines of dialogue. Imagine all the coding that would have to go into it alongside other balancing systems for stats and such. It would be a huge endeavor, and even further delay our efforts of getting v0.3 live. You see, we're writing the major engine standards in right now--and this would definitely run along the lines of an engine standard. And we can't just ignore a ton of basic features in v0.3, and just put them off. Re-writing and adding in parts of an engine is like skipping a question on a bubble test and accidentally putting the next answer in its place--and upon finishing the test and realizing that, erasing each and every filled bubble with the correct answer above it. Textbook definition? Annoying as hell.

At this point, you've loosened up a bit on the tonature, and I'm happy for that, it puts me at ease. Let me ask you though, you couldn't imagine putting dialogue choices in each and every scenario, could you? I mean, I'm sure you could, and I can "imagine" it, but what we've got going on behind the curtains, I'm not sure we can handle it--at least, if you want the game to be playable. For Christ's sake, its running off of flash, and we're making the first real Flash-H RPG a reality! We've got a decent amount of men and tremendous talent, but no matter how strong you are, its still hard as hell to lug a ten ton boulder up the pyramid steps barefoot.

I wouldn't hope on a "changing" story path, is all I'm saying. Its hard enough to make this mammoth game in the first place--and I'm not complaining. Hell, its not a bad idea. But the process involving its inclusion is going to be extremely difficult.

You've got to remember though, personalities and whorish nature can still be conveyed through personality. She doesn't have to talk. Krystal's nature isn't a loud-mouth. However, depending on how you act with her, or what outfit she's wearing, she could have different natures--like a whorish slut, or a resistive bitch--if you're concerned about her being too quiet and resistive, and preferences. I just think that porn dialogue can be really, really corny, and its not need for Krystal to respond in dialogue. No doubt you'll see dialogue though.

And, Elgregou, and this is for everyone else too--when you're replying to someone, even when you feel strongly about something, don't make it personal. Especially to the guy who's gonna write all the stuff you want--and to a team that sticks up for each other. You can't talk shit about someone to their face and then apologize. You're putting us at bad terms with you--and that's not good. Don't attack us. Remember who's making the game.

[Elgregou]

Ok, just a few points and I will not continue further the discussion because, after all, that's not the subject her :

1) "Mauvaise volonté" doesn't mean "Bad terms" or "Bad taste" in English. It means that when someone tells you that you have to do something, then you're making every excuses to avoid doing it. So I wasn't saying that Trunks or anyone here wanted to "fight" with someone, or doesn't like someone's suggestions to the point that they would trying to make fun of the person, and be in bad terms, or whatever. I was just saying he was sometimes fleeing from what people wanted or were saying.

2) concerning the poll, it's not 2 pros and 2 cons in the answers. You can't resume it like this, because the "maybe" option is.... well, a maybe. Choice 1 and 2 are strictly "yes", it is well enough explained. BUT, they are "YES" with a slight variation. It helps to see what people want, even if they choose to have dialogs.
If people really don't want written lines, they will choose the 4) choice, I means the "Definitely no". Why do these people, if they truly don't wan't written dialogs, would chose the 3) choice ? The 3rd choice shows very well that those people are unsure BUT would want to give it a try. So you can't say, by any mean, that they chose a "No". I'll dig further the interpretation of the poll by noticing that the 2) choice does'nt have any votes. For the strictly "YES" people, they want multiple choices or paths, not just one story with some dialogs.

That's all of the things I wanted to explain. Sorry, I don't want to make it a personal guerilla but when someone who is in charge of the script says something like "I don't want to do heavy texts"... It just feels wrong for me.
I don't want, of course, texts or choices for EVERY scene ; it would be, of course, boring and heavy, and would kill the gameplay. But it is proved that text, as much as graphics, can procure really exciting situations and make the imagination working.

Lastly, I really, REALLY thank the team for his work. And believe me, I respect you, guys, because you are doing something freely and (it seems) seriously. I know that programming is really difficult, that doing a flash game takes time and that all of what I and players are suggesting will not be possible to do. But I just wanted to notify that narrow-minded positions will not lead the game anywhere. Like I said on All-idea topic, there are way too many hentai games where the player, who discovers a new scene or a new ending during consecutive games, has no idea why he get this. Because he didn't talk to this character ? Because he avoided this event ? Because he has this item ? How the hell would he understand why Krystal becomes a slut in this end when she ended up as a shy one in the previous play ? Wanting to stick to Krystal's character is a good thing, but don't forget that this is a game. It means that the player wants to UNDERSTAND what he is doing with the character he controls. That's why written lines would help for that, and not only for developing the story.

Well. I'm really sorry. I hope that you don't take it all wrong on me. I really admire your work, and I don't want to sound like a complaining guy. But if, for every negative review or critic received, you say something like "Okay, don't forget who's making the game, and don't try to be in bad terms with us"... Well it will not go very far... I hope that, aside of this arguing, the poll will help you in deciding what is the best for everyone.
Thank you for your concern.


PS : One last thing for Trunks who said to me "I didn't write any of the current dialog so spare me the 'don't feel like taking lessons from you for the cliche thing...' that wasn't my doing."
Yes, I didn't know. Just like you when you criticized my "poorly written ideas" not knowing that I was French. So don't criticize someone when you don't know about this person. That goes for me too, of course.

[trunks2585]

we're not trying to be all high and mighty and be all like 'our way or the highway'. I think the main point is when there's a conflict of interests it's up to the staff to discuss things, like personally i'm not for the herm scene but when we get to it i'll write it up no problem, over half the members want it, i can't argue with those facts and i don't see too many problems with doing the scene that haven't already been discussed either here or in private.

I can' take constructive critizim, if i couldn't i wouldn't be an art major, but you have to let me actually write something up before you can critic me. All the current dialog is pretty much what was already there or altered by Renara since 0.2 was his project only.

I really think part of the problem has been a misunderstanding on BOTH sides. We arn't always sure what you want (like how often there should be the multiple choices to things), and is seems you arn't compleately understanding all the limitations and difficulties we are trying to explain to you as well.

I find it interesting how you and kal argue the poll in different ways. kal says maybe usually means no, and you are saying maybe will usually mean yes. I say maybe should mean maybe and while splitting those votes 50/50 makes sense, in reality that's now how people would actually go once seeing the finished product, so it remains it's own statistic not leaning one way or the other. also i feel that the poll was poorly worded you are combinding two elements into the main yes section. so are people really voting for krystal to have dialog, or just ot have multiple endings or both?

i think it's safe to say you'll get your wishes to some extent but not the exact way you want, we can reach a compromise on this, but as long as you are unwilling to part from your original idea, then we can't reach a conclusion.

[thehammer]

How's this? You make one version with dialouge and one without it. Or you could have an option for it dialouge or no dialouge at the start-up menu. YAY COMPROMISES!!!!

[DemonFiren]

YAY PROGRAMMING WORK UNTIL THEY FAINT!!!!

That was entirely sarcastic.

[nebrose]

How's this? You make one version with dialouge and one without it. Or you could have an option for it dialouge or no dialouge at the start-up menu. YAY COMPROMISES!!!!

... I think i already said that, just in different wording