Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

[cereburn]

Harpy grease doesn't seem to be working anymore. Is anyone else seeing that problem?

[DraconisOminous]

Harpy grease doesn't seem to be working anymore. Is anyone else seeing that problem?

There is an issue for all of the 'no loss' code, so anything, traits or items, that specify any monster not getting negative points to its stats simply don't work as intended because Harista accidentally forgot to put the code back in during the update. Harista knows this is an issue and it should be fixed soon.

[weyutco358]

I've noticed on the voting site that futa traits are winning, do you plan on making that a consumable? Also, it would be cool if you are making the elves an ally of sorts, maybe make them also a consumable, when they come in they screw which ever monster you want and the monsters traits go through the roof? Love the game so far.

[CoyoteLounge]

Hey, just wanted to check in and say this game is still my favorite by far. It's addicting and the artwork is awesome and ridiculous. The new npc scenes are great. I'm glad this game is moving right along. Now that I've said that and after browsing through the latest posts, there's one thing that really stick out to me.

Did we seriously just vote in the pedophile option? I could be completely off base here, and I REALLY fucking hope that I am, but is neoteny just a fancier word for child porn? I realize that this game deals with a world that is radically different than ours and there is a lot of truly bizarre shit that here that would get you way arrested in real life. I've played the game a lot, so obviously I'm okay with watching cartoon versions of anthropomorphic catgirls getting boned by blue wolves with giant, studded dongs or the prevalence of horses with dicks the size of cruise missiles going around butt probing anything that moves. Call me hypocritical that I can overlook bestiality, incest and slavery in a fictitious world and call it a good time, but I get uncomfortable with the idea of any of that shit happening to an immature, underdeveloped version of those creatures. I'm fine with that kind of hypocrisy, but I'm not fine with what this new function that beat out what I feel like are more appropriate and civil options, like MMF double penetration, and what it seems to be implying.

Like I said, maybe I just don't get it and one of you intelligent guys out there can explain it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm going to get busted by Chris Hanson just for playing this game. I really, really hope that that's the case. If it isn't the case and I'm really the only one on here that doesn't have a problem with this, then can I vote on some kind of toggle switch for Neoteny? I barely buy any harpies as it is, but that's only because I don't like flat girls. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for playing whatever version directly precedes the Neoteny update.

I wasn't able to find any other posts that were as worried about this as I am, so that leads me to believe that I'm missing some miraculous piece of information that's going to save the day for me on this. If not, then that just sucks cause I'm holding out a lot of hope for this game. Sorry if I ruined anyone's day with this post, especially the creator, because he's a very talented guy, who I've been keeping up with on here since Ifrit was posted. Oh snap, is Ifrit going to show up in this game?!

[DraconisOminous]

Hey, just wanted to check in and say this game is still my favorite by far. It's addicting and the artwork is awesome and ridiculous. The new npc scenes are great. I'm glad this game is moving right along. Now that I've said that and after browsing through the latest posts, there's one thing that really stick out to me.

Did we seriously just vote in the pedophile option? I could be completely off base here, and I REALLY fucking hope that I am, but is neoteny just a fancier word for child porn? I realize that this game deals with a world that is radically different than ours and there is a lot of truly bizarre shit that here that would get you way arrested in real life. I've played the game a lot, so obviously I'm okay with watching cartoon versions of anthropomorphic catgirls getting boned by blue wolves with giant, studded dongs or the prevalence of horses with dicks the size of cruise missiles going around butt probing anything that moves. Call me hypocritical that I can overlook bestiality, incest and slavery in a fictitious world and call it a good time, but I get uncomfortable with the idea of any of that shit happening to an immature, underdeveloped version of those creatures. I'm fine with that kind of hypocrisy, but I'm not fine with what this new function that beat out what I feel like are more appropriate and civil options, like MMF double penetration, and what it seems to be implying.

Like I said, maybe I just don't get it and one of you intelligent guys out there can explain it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm going to get busted by Chris Hanson just for playing this game. I really, really hope that that's the case. If it isn't the case and I'm really the only one on here that doesn't have a problem with this, then can I vote on some kind of toggle switch for Neoteny? I barely buy any harpies as it is, but that's only because I don't like flat girls. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for playing whatever version directly precedes the Neoteny update.

I wasn't able to find any other posts that were as worried about this as I am, so that leads me to believe that I'm missing some miraculous piece of information that's going to save the day for me on this. If not, then that just sucks cause I'm holding out a lot of hope for this game. Sorry if I ruined anyone's day with this post, especially the creator, because he's a very talented guy, who I've been keeping up with on here since Ifrit was posted. Oh snap, is Ifrit going to show up in this game?!

While I do promote having some ability to toggle things in the options menu for scenes a majority may not want to see (male-on-male and neoteny are probably pretty high up there). Neoteny simply states a childlike development, not necessarily them being children themselves. If you watch anime, those are the Loli-like characters, who can sometimes be of age. Komoe-sensei from To Aru series (or in English, A Certain Magical Index and A Certain Scientific Railgun) is a prime example. Or better yet, someone whose body is simply aging slower than the norm. Physically they could still be up for reproduction as well.

Neoteny really just means something with a more childlike form. Honestly, the age of the monsters in this case never change (let alone the fact that you can have a monster be born and then immediately on the same day have that monster give birth), so we aren't even dealing with any real human factors, despite the similarities, as the gestation cycle would indicate a much more immediate adulthood.

So, basically you are breeding midgets almost, except a little better proportioned. But Dwarfism tends to imply less visually appealing connotations. You could still view it as an attempt (one I would wholeheartedly disagree with as I abhore child abuse) to have more of a monstrous child breeding, but in every case, it simply wouldn't be due to monsters reproductive cycles and how they are not exactly human. The morals of this world do not apply to another and all that.

I hope that helps.

tl;dr;? The things aren't human, despite the resemblance to a humanoid form, so aren't children. The gestation cycle and reproductive cycle states that within the hour the monster reaches adult form (and that typically includes the gestation period), so isn't a child. And this is animated, and not a real child, and so you don't have to worry and can have a defense against any accusations, as long as you don't play it in public.

[Elerneron]

Hey, just wanted to check in and say this game is still my favorite by far. It's addicting and the artwork is awesome and ridiculous. The new npc scenes are great. I'm glad this game is moving right along. Now that I've said that and after browsing through the latest posts, there's one thing that really stick out to me.

Did we seriously just vote in the pedophile option? I could be completely off base here, and I REALLY fucking hope that I am, but is neoteny just a fancier word for child porn? I realize that this game deals with a world that is radically different than ours and there is a lot of truly bizarre shit that here that would get you way arrested in real life. I've played the game a lot, so obviously I'm okay with watching cartoon versions of anthropomorphic catgirls getting boned by blue wolves with giant, studded dongs or the prevalence of horses with dicks the size of cruise missiles going around butt probing anything that moves. Call me hypocritical that I can overlook bestiality, incest and slavery in a fictitious world and call it a good time, but I get uncomfortable with the idea of any of that shit happening to an immature, underdeveloped version of those creatures. I'm fine with that kind of hypocrisy, but I'm not fine with what this new function that beat out what I feel like are more appropriate and civil options, like MMF double penetration, and what it seems to be implying.

Like I said, maybe I just don't get it and one of you intelligent guys out there can explain it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm going to get busted by Chris Hanson just for playing this game. I really, really hope that that's the case. If it isn't the case and I'm really the only one on here that doesn't have a problem with this, then can I vote on some kind of toggle switch for Neoteny? I barely buy any harpies as it is, but that's only because I don't like flat girls. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for playing whatever version directly precedes the Neoteny update.

I wasn't able to find any other posts that were as worried about this as I am, so that leads me to believe that I'm missing some miraculous piece of information that's going to save the day for me on this. If not, then that just sucks cause I'm holding out a lot of hope for this game. Sorry if I ruined anyone's day with this post, especially the creator, because he's a very talented guy, who I've been keeping up with on here since Ifrit was posted. Oh snap, is Ifrit going to show up in this game?!

Neoteny (<-- wikipedia link) is a rare condition where a fully mature individual retains juvenile characteristics. This board does not allow the inclusion of true lolicon or shotacon. (Out of respect for this none of my games will appear here.) LoKF does make a distinction between young and young appearing, and neoteny is therefore permitted. HartistaPipebomb has stated that this will be an optional feature, as will many others (Male/Male, Futanari, etc.)

While you are being a bit hypocritical, that is your right. A lot of us are going to find things that we dislike voted in before the things that we want. That is the nature of diversity. You might want to tone it down just a notch or two out of respect. Many Lolicons are not pedophiles at all, and have no sexual interest whatsoever in real life children or images of them, and many take offense at being called pedophiles. All in all no one has convinced me that lolicon creates pedophiles, just as no one has convinced me that heavy metal music, Dungeons and Dragons, and violent video games creates murderers and rapists. Crazy is crazy and it will find an excuse, even if it's underwear adds in a Sears catalogue.

As to the legality of neoteny content in regions that oppress free speech by outlawing lolicon and shotacon (of which, sadly the USA is a minor member) . . . it's a gamble as to whether this would constitute a violation. It's a pretty safe bet that addressing it as a trait (therefore a genetic condition) of mature individuals should keep it relatively safe to use in all but the worst of those countries.

Edit: forgot to quote

[LoneWolf]

Hey, just wanted to check in and say this game is still my favorite by far. It's addicting and the artwork is awesome and ridiculous. The new npc scenes are great. I'm glad this game is moving right along. Now that I've said that and after browsing through the latest posts, there's one thing that really stick out to me.

Did we seriously just vote in the pedophile option? I could be completely off base here, and I REALLY fucking hope that I am, but is neoteny just a fancier word for child porn? I realize that this game deals with a world that is radically different than ours and there is a lot of truly bizarre shit that here that would get you way arrested in real life. I've played the game a lot, so obviously I'm okay with watching cartoon versions of anthropomorphic catgirls getting boned by blue wolves with giant, studded dongs or the prevalence of horses with dicks the size of cruise missiles going around butt probing anything that moves. Call me hypocritical that I can overlook bestiality, incest and slavery in a fictitious world and call it a good time, but I get uncomfortable with the idea of any of that shit happening to an immature, underdeveloped version of those creatures. I'm fine with that kind of hypocrisy, but I'm not fine with what this new function that beat out what I feel like are more appropriate and civil options, like MMF double penetration, and what it seems to be implying.

Like I said, maybe I just don't get it and one of you intelligent guys out there can explain it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm going to get busted by Chris Hanson just for playing this game. I really, really hope that that's the case. If it isn't the case and I'm really the only one on here that doesn't have a problem with this, then can I vote on some kind of toggle switch for Neoteny? I barely buy any harpies as it is, but that's only because I don't like flat girls. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for playing whatever version directly precedes the Neoteny update.

I wasn't able to find any other posts that were as worried about this as I am, so that leads me to believe that I'm missing some miraculous piece of information that's going to save the day for me on this. If not, then that just sucks cause I'm holding out a lot of hope for this game. Sorry if I ruined anyone's day with this post, especially the creator, because he's a very talented guy, who I've been keeping up with on here since Ifrit was posted. Oh snap, is Ifrit going to show up in this game?!

According to my dictionary:
Neoteny: noun, the retention of juvenile features into the adult form of some animals, e.g. an axolotl.

Neoteny doesn't imply that the creature is 'immature', but that the adult form retains features that you'd normally expect to see only in the immature form. It's still a fully developed adult. (In particular, for it to count as neoteny, it can't be caused by the creature failing to mature due to a growth defect. That would be a disorder of some form instead.) To use the axolotl example: most species of salamander have quite different juvenile and adult forms, similar to frogs and tadpoles. The axolotl, on the other hand, never transforms: adult, fully mature axolotls still have the physical shape of the 'tadpole' form. They're still 'normal' (for the species) and they're still fully sexually mature; they just look strange.

I don't know whether that's going to help you or not; a monster with neoteny would be an adult and just as capable of giving consent as any other creature in the game, but it would still look childish. So it depends on whether you're bothered by 'kids in porn' or 'someone watching porn that resembles kids'. (I won't bother getting into the pedophilia/ephebophila distinction here; we don't have enough idea of exactly what neotenic monsters are going to look like to make that call yet.) For me, neoteny being included simply falls under 'catering to a fetish that isn't mine'. No-one's being hurt or exploited, so I don't see that it's any of my business what other people do or don't like.

(As for neoteny beating 'more appropriate and civil options', bear in mind that things like MMF double penetration are all over the internet already. Anyone with a fetish that is socially acceptable can find far more material based on it than something that hints at offending the moral guardians; therefore, given the opportunity, we can expect the people with 'weird' fetishes to care more about getting their turn.)

[Justapuppet]

... Did we seriously just vote in the pedophile option? I could be completely off base here, and I REALLY fucking hope that I am, but is neoteny just a fancier word for child porn? I realize that this game deals with a world that is radically different than ours and there is a lot of truly bizarre shit that here that would get you way arrested in real life. I've played the game a lot, so obviously I'm okay with watching cartoon versions of anthropomorphic catgirls getting boned by blue wolves with giant, studded dongs or the prevalence of horses with dicks the size of cruise missiles going around butt probing anything that moves. Call me hypocritical that I can overlook bestiality, incest and slavery in a fictitious world and call it a good time, but I get uncomfortable with the idea of any of that shit happening to an immature, underdeveloped version of those creatures. I'm fine with that kind of hypocrisy, but I'm not fine with what this new function that beat out what I feel like are more appropriate and civil options, like MMF double penetration, and what it seems to be implying.

Like I said, maybe I just don't get it and one of you intelligent guys out there can explain it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm going to get busted by Chris Hanson just for playing this game. I really, really hope that that's the case. If it isn't the case and I'm really the only one on here that doesn't have a problem with this, then can I vote on some kind of toggle switch for Neoteny? I barely buy any harpies as it is, but that's only because I don't like flat girls. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for playing whatever version directly precedes the Neoteny update.
...

I can agree with this concern, and really do not at all think it's hypocritical to be comfortable with those things (... okay with the exception of slavery) and be uncomfortable with this.
In response to those who were quick to correct that it is not technically "pedo"... well it still may feel an awful lot like it, regardless of whether it's actually not. I think this is what the problem really is.

Fortunately, as quoted from the update announcing the winners of the poll, "... both features will be optional and toggled from the options page." So you won't have to worry about avoiding versions because they have this content, because it can be easily toggled off. ... Same for peeps who aren't comfortable with M/M animations, although I understand that a lot less

[eroticgrapefruit]

I was wondering when this conversation would come up

[deathreaper711]

I was wondering when this conversation would come up

Despite it being stated that everything will be optional and that you can toggle everything continuously for everything in both blog posts and on the forum, still people ask about toggling things and things to be optional. Then it turns into a philosophy discussion about what makes people feel uncomfortable about (optional) fiction that is somehow comparable to real life in any form (When it isn't and there's been comprehensive studies around this matter to prove that.). Then it turns into a morality discussion, and a comprehensive reply binge despite the original question being answerable by two minutes of using the search function, checking the OP post, or the blog, and the morality aspect of it by using common sense, or in more serious cases, a simple google search.

Expecting anything less than this, especially here in this thread where every other day turns into a huge redundant discussion that barely even correlates with the game, is just silly .

[Calumny]

seeing the above discussion of the neoteny trait, you could possible change the name for cosmetic reasons. A creature with neoteny is very much like a dwarf or miniature version of the animal(I know, I know, it's not -exactly- the same. It's very similar though) so you could change what the trait is called. Dwarf dogs, hedgehogs, snakes etc. are fine, so this is basically the same, and the name change might make people see it differently.

It also brings me around to a suggestion I wanted to make. Since there's a miniaturization trait, would it be possibly to have an 'extra large' or 'gigantism' type trait? That would have the opposite effect, making the monster extra large. If you like the idea you could put it up on the Voting List, Hartista. If it's not something you'd be interested in doing, by all means don't. Just thought I'd run it by everyone on this thread and see what other thought~

[Oringlas]

It might be worth having these sort of options "off" by default, just to try to cut down on all tha complainin'

[DraconisOminous]

At least the person asking had a more legitimate and less knee-jerk reaction than could have been. It is a valid concern for some people, and the average persons perception is likely skewed enough that the language used does matter.

[CoyoteLounge]

Okay, so what you guys are saying is that the Neoteny monsters are kind of like Kitty Yung and porn stars like her, where they could be in their thirties and still have a body that makes them look like they're 11? I guess that makes me feel a little bit better about the idea of it in the game, but if it's on a toggle, I'll most likely have it off. I'm just not into underdeveloped features, but that's me.

As for Lolicon, I've seen this all over the place and in nearly every manga that I read. I'm aware that it's out there and extremely popular, but just like Bronies, I absolutely don't understand it. When I hear "Loli" I assume it's based off of "Lolita" which in the US refers to a promiscuous underage girl. You can understand why I'm hesitant to Google anything like that on my personal computer.

All in all, your reasoning is good enough for me to keep this from being a game changer, so thanks. I did a search on the forums for this and didn't see anyone else talking about it, so that seemed odd to me. I wasn't trying to evoke a philosophical discussion or call anyone a freak (f I'm playing this game, then I really have no room to throw stones); and parts of my rant, like the part about MMFDP, were sarcastic, but it's difficult to relay that on the internet where not everyone speaks American English as a first language.

Now, something no one bothered to chime in on: What's the deal? Am I the only one that wants to know if Ifrit will be making an appearance here? HArtista already has the design and a few animations! If we're getting a new male monster (which would balance us out) then that seems like an easy one to throw in. But I'm a noob with Flash so I don't really know what I'm talking about when I say things like that.

[HartistaPipebomb]

I'm trying to be pretty careful with how Neoteny is handled. Realistically, the only difference it amounts to is art-style, because at this level of abstraction the actual age of the monsters doesn't actually mean anything and their resemblance to actual humans is cartoony enough to be pretty subjective in regards to the age they're supposed to represent.

In general, though, the distinction between these being sexually mature monsters who appear young and them actually being children is extremely important to me. Just in general with the game I am trying to play up the fantasy aspect, and make it much sillier than it is realistic, because what I want to do is divorce the fantasy of the taboo fetishes being presented here from their reality. Personally, I find it very important to make a clear distinction between what's acceptable in fantasy and what's acceptable in the real world. The fantasy medium gives you the opportunity to take aspects that are exciting or compelling from acts that are inextricable from some horrible consequences in real life and instead contort them to make them safe and acceptable within the context of the fantasy. I think this is actually a good thing as long as the audience understands the very clear difference between this fantasy world and the world they actually live in, because it allows a comparatively much more constructive outlet for these things.

As an example, say you enjoy horror movies. You like the movies because fear can be exhilarating and cathartic. But no one would ever, ever want to actually be in the situations depicted in the movies. The fantasy of the movie allows you to divorce the enjoyment you can get out of fear from the negative consequences of actual pain and death. Likewise, the depictions of bestiality, incest, forced sex, etc, that I am showing here are supposed to allow you to enjoy the compelling aspects of these taboos while removing the horrible aspects these things would have in real life, and the back-story and mechanics of the world are built in such a way to make this morally sensible in a way that it explicitly isn't in reality.

It's just very important, of course, that the viewer realizes that this is an extremely unrealistic fantasy, and not to confuse the things they see here with what's good or acceptable in the real world, which is why I am somewhat adamant that it remain cartoony and silly.

[DraconisOminous]

Okay, so what you guys are saying is that the Neoteny monsters are kind of like Kitty Yung and porn stars like her, where they could be in their thirties and still have a body that makes them look like they're 11? I guess that makes me feel a little bit better about the idea of it in the game, but if it's on a toggle, I'll most likely have it off. I'm just not into underdeveloped features, but that's me.

As for Lolicon, I've seen this all over the place and in nearly every manga that I read. I'm aware that it's out there and extremely popular, but just like Bronies, I absolutely don't understand it. When I hear "Loli" I assume it's based off of "Lolita" which in the US refers to a promiscuous underage girl. You can understand why I'm hesitant to Google anything like that on my personal computer.

Basically.

Loli is a very varied term. Like how Yankee can mean different things to different people. And depending on where your from, it can change. In this case it probably just refers to the typical appearance being that of someone who looks young (there are arguments among the people who call themselves lolicons on what an appropriate definition of Loli is, but again, this doesn't generally matter overtly much). Lolita typically refers to a fashion style (which has its own sub-groups) as well as the book that Lolicon spawned from. (The word Loli for males is Shota, or basically boy in japanese, and is short for Shotacon which yes, has much of the same restrictions as Lolicon)

[das_boot]

So i was thinking that it would be cool if there was a built in pedigree chart so it would be easier to keep from incest.

[DraconisOminous]

So i was thinking that it would be cool if there was a built in pedigree chart so it would be easier to keep from incest.

What you really want is the exact incest counter, most likely. Incest only occurs between relations who either were the father/mother, or share a father/mother. While it is somewhat difficult, as points are added from the base incest counts of the parents. Incorrigibility makes pedigree charts slightly worthless (at high enough levels, anyway), and the game itself really doesn't hold much information beyond parents for reasons that benefit the player as well (information retention on that scale?). Pedigree doesn't really matter in the game beyond incest (unless you are self-imposing a rule or something)

Beyond which, a tool tip generally pops up for you to take notice. But if you want to ever rebreed something, just remember there has to be a generational gap (i.e. a parent group separate) from each other for it not to be incest. Cousins and Grandparent sex is fine and not counted as incest, Parents and Siblings are counted. If incest does occur, having the resulting union mate with someone outside the family and the resulting birth monster has no incest markers on it (if I got the mechanics of incest right).

[stellated]

I think it is both healthy and welcome for people to discuss what they are comfortable and uncomfortable with. Neoteny doesn't sit well for me either because I do not like the sexualization of minors, and sexualizing the body of a child is indirectly (or rather directly depending on whom you ask) sexualizing minors. Would it appeal to pedophiles? Yes. There is no amount of mental gymnastics that can get around the fact that no matter how you contextualize underaged bodies there is still that connection with pedophilia. It is important to discuss that connection and soundly reject pedophilia because no one with a healthy sexuality likes the idea of abusing children. Yes this is an intersection of morality, ethics, and pornography. It happens. If people don't want to hear about the pornographic opinions of other people maybe they shouldn't be participating in a community for pornographic games instead of trying to dismiss people who are trying to participate themselves?

I would feel a lot better about neoteny if HartistaPipebomb put it in the prelude to the game that we as a community reject pedophilia and child abuse.

P.S. This is not the post I wanted to write when I read the latest posts. I guess I'll post that one later

[weyutco358]

I think if you made races smaller but fully developed, like a hobbit would be or a dwarf, than you can get rid of the Neoteny.