Another Tail ( News Update April 10, 2014 )

[RedUnit10]

I'm all for the RPG Turn-Based system. There are just so many platformers and fighters out there in this category of user based flash submissions, the rare oddity is a nice break.

Then again I have always preferred strategy games where my mind is put to the test, over a game where the only skill you need is luck and timing.

[Tovi]

The need of luck is my definition of a turn-based rpg, where the brains comes in as a second input as to what to make of the mess that said luck gave you to work with, though I guess its just different opinions in the end, so who cares. I do see what you all mean with the variation by adding alternative systems, but looking at it out of another perspective - since when did ANY starfox game, especially those involving Krystal, use a turn based system? It is more of a final fantasy approach I'd say.
I am not saying that any game here should simply be a replica of the original games, if there are any, but there is a point and a way of making the game more interesting lying in that way of thinking. And as to platformers I think they can't be overused since they are the easiest system to input variety into. Every single turn-based RPG is essentially the same, it all comes down to where luck is inserted to make the "gameplay" more interesting. Other than that it's the same old sliders and HUDs in every single turn-based game out there.
Just look at all the platformers there already are at this forum as perfect examples of how unique one can make a platformer instead of just looking at the branch, which is far more complex than the title it has been given. There are not enough RPGs on this forum to really make the same observation as with platformers, but talking out of experience as I have occasionally sat down and played RPGs as well, I'd almost in all cases rather not done it due to how tediously repetitive they get after the first few fights.
Platformers on the other hand can vary vastly from game to game, thanks to how much more freedom a developer has in that kind of game. Try to compare Metroid with say megaman and maybe then compare those with crash bandicoot, heck,you could even compare it to a game like Barbie Explorer, not any of those said games are even remotely alike. Whereas games like Final Fantasy or Fire Emblem or Pokemon resembles each others almost to the point of awkwardness.
The difference is that it really puts you, the actual player, in a position of constant backseat gaming where you tell the computer simply when to do an attack, simply by choosing the alternative.
A platformer on the other hand, involves the human error to the mix, generating the outcomes to infinite. At the same time you have involved the player into the game as he/her is literally in control of his/hers own character, not just the HUD telling the character what to do.

Disclaimer: These are still just mostly my own opinions, but they do however show what I am thinking when I suggest to not make another RPG out of this, Gore is already making an RPG, and unlike Cortas splatformer the concept of RPG is HARD to make unique and really appealing to the general player without some really earth-shattering concepts.

No offense to anyone, view this as an explanation as to why I think like I do, not why you should. Feel free to try and convince me otherwise now that you know how I view it, instead of merely stating that I may be wrong and the like.

[deadlonexus]

For my point of view :
A RPG turn based is luck based, have too much repeatitive actions. You need to wait to show the result and generally mean that you put CG for sexe scenes. But it is easier to implement. If good implemented, it can be the most strategic (but always luck..).. no need for grinding levels is a very good idea.

Platformers are a more dynamic gameplay. You put animations (rather than CG) and you have the feeling to evolute and have an impact in a living world and not have swapping between adventures/combat. Enemies can just be scripted. The immersion is the better than others gameplays (As I play a sex game for its immersion, I love that category)

Fighters need to be very reactive (compare rise of the robots with street fighter), need to have a good IA for challenges (so can be hard to implement). The gameplay is more aggresive but some can like it. The combat field is limited.
But, you approach to make a 1 vs X is a very good idea. Because in fact, you can do a platformers fightering and mixing the good of two. But keep in mind that for a sex game, we need to have some time to watch and interact sex scenes (in case where you put scenes in fight)

A mix of option 2 and 3 will be the best on my opinion (the thing is I don't know if game like that exist) but it can very difficult to implement.

My 2 coppers.

[AnotherArrow]

Minor update to Elene's Character Sheet today, nothing big... been too busy working.

@ Valpas, I agree with everything you said...
You are not wrong in your way of thinking, but... how do I put this... I feel... hmm.... words escape me right now...

I think what this is boiling down to is whether people want a game where they can sit back, relax and enjoy themselves during a fight, or live in the moment. Both have their appeals and neither is wrong.

[darkxhitman]

am i missing something is the actual game out yet besides the second version

[Pikotense]

Made an account just to get this though off my chest, so. AA, why are you even bothering with the genre question if you clearly want to do the Turn Based RPG? You keep defending it and it was what you set out on the project with in mind, yes? Why not just do what you want? I'd rather see you do what you want to do than what the forum wants you to do.

[Tovi]

Do not get me wrong here. I am not trying to make AA use my concepts for the game, I am merely trying to convey the general opinion of the forum into an explanation as to why they probably think that way, not why AA should make them game based on popular demands. I am merely acting as a defender of the platformer concept in a passive way and trying to give my opinion on the matter. If it came through any other way I must make a serious apology to everyone who has been reading my posts in this thread.
I am actually more inclined to see what AA here have in mind, as I believe that once the game is afoot (get it? Krystal being a fox, you know foxhunti- no wait NVM...)AHEM! Anyways-

For future fleshing out on general ideas about what could be done for any games on this site really, make it playable with one hand, this would instantly gain approval from all parties, no matter what concept for fighting style you choose to go on, AA.

Other than that I would really like a full explanation as to what kind of Fighting-style that you have in mind, since you obviously won't compare it to neither of the 3 alternatives that you have put in the voting pool, perhaps flesh out on the topic instead and give people an idea as to what you DO have in mind for this game. The voters can't help you with their opinions unless they know exactly what they are voting for, thus they vote on the good ol' faithful- the platformer.

To adress your last statement in your previous post I really think that the answer for the majority will be more action-packed, just like real gaming, that is after all why most of us are here, or am I perhaps mistaken? The general idea is that people playing these kinds of games want more than just the regular gaming-inspired slideshow, which sadly is the embodiment of an RPG. Though just as at the start, I still can't really express an opinion as I have nothing real to go on as of yet. The sooner you finish your concepts the faster the voting pool will start to show actual opinions. Good luck!

P.s. Oh man, I just keep dem walls of texts comming, ain't I? No wonder I am still only at 48 posts, I am writing lesser novels every damn post! XD

[demi]

Just a quick note, but the nipples are placed too high up on the breasts on the model sheets.
Elena's face is based off of Kuja's work, right?

[AnotherArrow]

Another Minor Update to Elene

@Demi, Adjust nipples only on Elene at the moment. Can't remember which picture I based the original model on, but I compared it to 3 "female anatomy" pics and saw they were indeed a little too high. I'll fix Krystal's nips later.
And yes. Elene's face is a trace of the face from Kuja's work. I couldn't find a good female lizard face that I liked as a reference, so I borrowed Kuja.

@darkxhitman
Version 3 is not out... its very much still in development.

Made an account just to get this though off my chest, so. AA, why are you even bothering with the genre question if you clearly want to do the Turn Based RPG? You keep defending it and it was what you set out on the project with in mind, yes? Why not just do what you want? I'd rather see you do what you want to do than what the forum wants you to do.

Actually, I really want to do a Platform x Fighter (in other words options 3), but, after making the fighting animation test demo on the front page... and knowing down the road, i'm going to be working with around 20 characters, kind of makes me want to puss out and make a simple RPG (much much easier to code and animate). And, as Lucky777 quoted my front page statement a while back:

Please note, I'm using the poll to gauge how the community feels about each game type. But, just because one poll is winning, does not mean I'll use that model. A person with a good argument and idea will weigh more then the poll. Keep that in mind.

I'm still on the wall with all three game types. My leanings change on a minute to minute basis...
I'm probably, in the end, going to implement all three to some degree and restart the polling and let people judge based on those demos (of course I'll still have the final say).
Again, the Poll doesn't necessarily mean that's the game type I'm going to choose, its just there to give me incite as to what the community likes/wants.

My plan right now is after Elene's base character sheet is done, I'll probably hammer out Iris (temp name for female Blaziken) and one,two, or three baddies before working on the demos.

[Pikotense]

Oh wow. I didn't realize x: (the other way around) would make an angry face. I wasn't really angry at all. Anyway, fair enough on your previous post. I guess I misinterpreted some things. c: Sorry if I came off as rude or anything, it wasn't my intention. I was just getting my thoughts out on how I felt the thread was going. Still really looking forward to the game no matter which genre it decides to follow.

[jaznow]

Can't find the game to give it a try...¿? where is it?

I've found a lot of documentation and text, but where's the last version of the swf ??

[KaTsuO_O]

"Actually, I really want to do a Platform x Fighter (in other words options 3), but, after making the fighting animation test demo on the front page... and knowing down the road, i'm going to be working with around 20 characters, kind of makes me want to puss out and make a simple RPG (much much easier to code and animate)."

In that case, I think you should consider just using one character, as well as get rid of one button. Sometimes you have to throw away ideas to get other ones to work.

[demi]

@Demi, Adjust nipples only on Elene at the moment. Can't remember which picture I based the original model on, but I compared it to 3 "female anatomy" pics and saw they were indeed a little too high. I'll fix Krystal's nips later. And yes. Elene's face is a trace of the face from Kuja's work. I couldn't find a good female lizard face that I liked as a reference, so I borrowed Kuja.

Sweet, looks a lot better.

Actually, I really want to do a Platform x Fighter (in other words options 3), but, after making the fighting animation test demo on the front page... and knowing down the road, i'm going to be working with around 20 characters, kind of makes me want to puss out and make a simple RPG (much much easier to code and animate).

I'm still on the wall with all three game types. My leanings change on a minute to minute basis...
I'm probably, in the end, going to implement all three to some degree and restart the polling and let people judge based on those demos (of course I'll still have the final say).
Again, the Poll doesn't necessarily mean that's the game type I'm going to choose, its just there to give me incite as to what the community likes/wants.

What you said reminded me of something Kyrieru said on his blog about he had learned over the course of the year after he released Kurovadis.

Think in sequels:
All too often, a simple idea turns into a massive project. Equipable clothing, leveling up, skills, branching story paths, tons of content, etc. The idea goes from being practical, to being a mish-mash of ideas you want to see in every game you play.

For me, the best way to prevent this from happening is to think of the game you're working on as if it were going to be the first in a trilogy. Decide which features are absolutely necessary to the game's design, the ones that define it's gameplay, and than simply consider how the rest would factor into the next games. Best case scenario, you end up actually making the sequel, building on what you've already established. Worst case scenario, you've completed a solid game and can move on to something else.

I already knew from the early discussions that you gave up the platformer idea because you didn't want to sideline your other characters. But with a roster that big, there just really isn't enough game to develop that many characters or give each one a moment to shine.

We already know that an RPG is going to be the easiest to pull off, so I suggest you start with what you know you can do and go from there. It's your game/game series, so no one has any say over if you want your next game (possibly in the same series) to be something completely different genre-wise except you.

Just try to keep everything in manageable chunks, save some characters for a sequel even. In the end, you'd probably be a lot happier with a short, finished game with the possibility for more than a huge game that's only half-playable.

[AnotherArrow]

I already knew from the early discussions that you gave up the platformer idea because you didn't want to sideline your other characters. But with a roster that big, there just really isn't enough game to develop that many characters or give each one a moment to shine.

We already know that an RPG is going to be the easiest to pull off, so I suggest you start with what you know you can do and go from there. It's your game/game series, so no one has any say over if you want your next game (possibly in the same series) to be something completely different genre-wise except you.

Just try to keep everything in manageable chunks, save some characters for a sequel even. In the end, you'd probably be a lot happier with a short, finished game with the possibility for more than a huge game that's only half-playable

I never really gave up on the platformer idea.... just "evolved" the platformer into a fighter. The fighter option was my first answer to how to use more then one character in a platformer. Over the course of the discussion, I've thought up a few more ideas that I'll try in the demos.

In regards to making squeals and such...
1) I'm already breaking down AT into multiple "Acts" that will cover X amount of the story I have planned. Each Act will be their own game. The first act I have planned will give you 3 playable characters ( Krystal, Elene, and Iris ) and maybe Samus temporarily in the flashback. That isn't too much...
2) I want to keep the game play the same throughout the series.

In that case, I think you should consider just using one character, as well as get rid of one button. Sometimes you have to throw away ideas to get other ones to work.

*like vader* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
...
Yea, in the demo version of the fighter I have planned, I am going to drop it from 4 buttons to 3 buttons for attacks.
But I refuse to drop the other characters... I need them... for multiple reasons...

I just had an epiphany... going back to making squeals and such...
I could make AT an RPG or Fighter... and make a side-story Platforming game following Samus story leading into AT. I had plans on her explaining her reason for being there in a flashback, but could easily convert that to its own game.... that I could release between acts....hmm.... deliberate, I must.

[Thaedael]

Don't want to sound like a dick, but by any chance did you use Kuja's and mine's lizard girl as the base for the face of yours?

[AnotherArrow]

Don't want to sound like a dick, but by any chance did you use Kuja's and mine's lizard girl as the base for the face of yours?

Yes, I've mentioned it a few times before... the face is a trace from work in Kuja's Ascension.

Sorry I didn't ask you guys first to use it... I wanted to get the models moving along so I traced the face structure to move on.
I'm was going to use it till I had time come up with my own design, but honestly, your guys design is working well and I've grown to like it, I might as well make a formal request to both of you, Thaedael and Kuja if can continue to use it.

[Thaedael]

It's fine I didn't read through everything so I probably didn't notice. I am cool with it, glad someone is using it in the end. I will ask kuja if he is ok with it, and probably toss you my folder of all his works he ever made on my projects with hundreds of characters and outfits if its cool with him!

[[Brand_Name]]

this looks awesome, BUT there's no way in hell I'm reading twelve pages. can somebody give me a synopsis of this thread? much appreciated.

[RedUnit10]

I think I didn't explain why I feel platforms are a luck and timing based game, while Turn Based RPG's are a strategy and mental game.

In a platformer such as lets say Mega Man (because I have never played a real platformer besides this) you press a button and you jump, you press another button and you shoot. You press the jump button and then the shoot button, and you jump and shoot. The game teaches you everything as you begin, like when to duck or jump, or when to take an opportunity to shoot at an enemy. Its all about timing, once you have that down you could play the entire game avoiding being hit even once. (unless you make a mistake, in which case its your fault) I'm sure anyone who is anyone has seen the Sequelitis - Mega Man Classic vs. Mega Man X , in which case you know what I'm talking about here. (if you haven't, go watch it NOW)

In a Turn Based RPG like lets say Lost Odyssey (because thats the only Turn Based RPG I have completed to date) you must take your turns to plan ahead, much like a game of chess. When you enter a battle you can see everyones HP and MP, including the enemies HP and MP. Right off the bat you need to be able to multitask to track all this information, paying attention to any change to these levels including if anyone has an effect on them. As you play you can learn the weaknesses and strengths to enemies and bosses in the game before you even battle them, then when you do enter the fights against these enemies your prepared with this knowledge. You need to manage equipment and weapons, manage party members, manage consumable items, and prepare for the battles ahead. Sure you don't need to time things as much as a game like Mega Man (except when you use the Ring System) but luck is not going to affect your stats (because it IS one of your stats), you need to earn those numbers that represent your stats by completing battles and winning. In a platformer, you can avoid or skip so many enemies and it doesn't mean anything!

[AnotherArrow]

Back from a week of RL shit

Character Sheet Update Today. Elene is now mostly finished, few things I still need to add, but moving onto Iris.

It's fine I didn't read through everything so I probably didn't notice. I am cool with it, glad someone is using it in the end. I will ask kuja if he is ok with it, and probably toss you my folder of all his works he ever made on my projects with hundreds of characters and outfits if its cool with him!

Cool! Definitely let me know!

this looks awesome, BUT there's no way in hell I'm reading twelve pages. can somebody give me a synopsis of this thread? much appreciated.

Start on Page 10 (Here is where Mr.D caught me ninja updating from my long hiatus.)
Post before that relate to Version 2 of AT.

---

Back to the Combat Game Play discussion...
I've decided AT will not be a platformer. I'm going to save that game play type for my Metroid side-story game I'll work on after ACT1 of AT is done ( or I may even work on it during AT:ACT1 ). I've also decided to modify the adventuring stage from a platformer to... something else... still side-scrolling, but less "jumping" onto platforms.
My plan is still to develop a demo test for a RPG version and Fighting Version. From there I will decide where to go.