Despair Labyrinth (RPG) Latest Release: Ver.0.09 (4/18/12)

[UnsungHero]

Gameplay logic is the only reason why there's even bandits to still fight after a little while. Or the fact that the Rogue's haven't told everyone, and they just wouldn't send up the Combat Division, who judging by the one guy you CAN fight, are significantly stronger then everyone else on the first "level". They'd probably just steamroll you and throw you in the Chambers and maybe actually NOT leave your weapons with you ahahaha.

I've been wondering if you can actually progress far into the game WITHOUT losing, but I don't think you would do well because you can't get into the Chambers without losing at first, and you can't really levelgrind anything until you can get past that Captain...

It's not really gameplay logic -Though the point of why the Syndicate isn't trying to lockdown the place is a good point... I smell a Char in the midst or the syndicate are a bunch of idiots that only function on hormones....

based on the room with Lumina even with the combat Division... The syndicate just doesn't have the quality troops to handle just one of you let alone with all the other Mercs/Knights and One woman/man armies runnnig around mowing down fodder. -It's very much like early incidents between the russia mob and the KGB- The Syndicate has signed it's death warrant... but thier just fodder for the real agenda anyway. Remember Lore wise most of the girls you play as are Expert fighters, Thier is a reason you have an instant I willingly lose. The only Time i've legit lost was the first fight with Xandrud and that's cause i didn't know any of his weaknesses or moves. -I expected him to have the standard boss is immune to status effects deal, I only figured out on the rematch that he is fairly vulnerable to them... and Thyme... well Thyme is a one woman juggernuaght of dooom! and all the best come backs... well her and Rhiannon... I like all the girls sue me-

Granted I think once you get to the Arcane division, The ante will be upped when with the ways things going, This isn't a simple powergrab by the Syndicate... Thier just the patsies for the Real villians. Cough all the sudden lore about Void demons at the end of the rouge division, Thyme's flashback to the void war and her generally comments that the Arcane division is dabbling in research best not touched and of course Irine's Dark encounter with a demon out of nowhere.

I also take back what I said... I don't think Nebula is the Arcane division leader... Granted I picture a bizarre mix of Dr Cid/ Syazel as the Arcane head.

[krisslanza]

I'm not so sure about the Syndicate being that weak. The Rogues are, but there job isn't really to handle (mostly) trained fighters. The actually Combat Division though should be fairly tough, you just haven't found any of the actually seriously well-trained ones yet.

After all, the Syndicate is a major criminal power that has its hands all over every government practically. They probably have some really powerful people to keep everyone in line... they just haven't bothered to come stamp you out yet.

[ZeroEXE.ZX17]

I also take back what I said... I don't think Nebula is the Arcane division leader... Granted I picture a bizarre mix of Dr Cid/ Syazel as the Arcane head.

yea i can see that as well....... with nebula being the dr cid/syazel's spoiled brat of a daughter XD

[UnsungHero]

I'm not so sure about the Syndicate being that weak. The Rogues are, but there job isn't really to handle (mostly) trained fighters. The actually Combat Division though should be fairly tough, you just haven't found any of the actually seriously well-trained ones yet.

After all, the Syndicate is a major criminal power that has its hands all over every government practically. They probably have some really powerful people to keep everyone in line... they just haven't bothered to come stamp you out yet.

Yes The Combat division member you fight is noted as being whole other level better then the Rogue division punks -a wet paper bag is more effective then them most of the time-... but they are still noted as being no match for you-Even Enyo isn't a match for you and She's the second strongest person you fight in the current game-

Narratively wise Xandrud is the only guy you fight that is a danger to you and that's mostly cause his good enough fighter and fights dirty at the same time.

Your right the elites are gonna be the threat, but the Combat division is still gonna be a fodder upgrade as noted Lumina ripped though a group of Rougue and Combat division members.

The other problem with the Syndicate is clearly the other divisions hate each other.

I also take back what I said... I don't think Nebula is the Arcane division leader... Granted I picture a bizarre mix of Dr Cid/ Syazel as the Arcane head.

yea i can see that as well....... with nebula being the dr cid/syazel's spoiled brat of a daughter XD

and She's constantly whining about the good Doctor's Bodyguard whose always with him andthe fact he talks to himself alot now and is just totally ruinning her image like OMG, Boys will never take her seriousily cause of her crazy old man. Yeah she makes kinky sex abomination that rape your face but she doesn't talk to herself like gawd!


-Epic reveal after fighting round one with the DR and his Bodyguard, you are able to knock off her rather concealing helmet to reveal her hellish pupils and horns -Like a wierd fusion of the Swamp witch from Queen's blade and Rider from F/SN-
-Rolls D-20-
18!
Using your Bardic knowledge and that Demonology 101 course-atleast the stuff you remember as you were to busy trying to get in the pants of the cute girl at the front- You identify the woman as a Succibus! A Higher Demon of the Void!

-Dr does the shiny anime glasses flip off adjust -where they adjuest thier glasses with thier middle finger so thier basically flipping you off while doing it!-

My My My.... it seems are little secrect is out now -as something invisible stirs on his left and right flanks and transparent sillouttes approach you-

[krisslanza]

I figured Lumina is probably just a particularly "high level" as it were. Which then makes me wonder where she is if you play as Asella...

[moonblack]

Enyo is basically an evil version of a level 9 Sairyn. At the time you meet her you can (and likely will be) at a higher level. Considering that the Brawlers she trains are the strongest fodder the Rogues' Division has it's no surprise you can curbstomp almost everyone in the Division.

As for the guys Lumina destroyed: Was it said that they are from the Military Division? I thought they are also from the Rogues' Division, just a little but better equipped.

[krisslanza]

Enyo is basically an evil version of a level 9 Sairyn. At the time you meet her you can (and likely will be) at a higher level. Considering that the Brawlers she trains are the strongest fodder the Rogues' Division has it's no surprise you can curbstomp almost everyone in the Division.

As for the guys Lumina destroyed: Was it said that they are from the Military Division? I thought they are also from the Rogues' Division, just a little but better equipped.

I'm not sure if it's mentioned, other then the fact Lumina completely stomped them all. She probably didn't ask first.

Thinking back on it, Lumina is either fairly skilled, or it has to do with her fighting style not being geared towards one-on-one, like Gwyn who I see the only reason she was in danger was, as a duelist, she's meant to fight one-on-one. She's not good in a group situation. Also, she was injured.

[UnsungHero]

Thier using the Combat division sprites
At that point you've already encountered one of the Combat division that's assinged to help the Rogue's and you run into a couple more of them setting at the mess hall later. So it stands to reason that those were combat division members, But i'll admit i'm just assuming they are combant division members they could be more like the first pikeman a well equipped Rogue member.

I'm not saying they can't be a threat, but generally fodder runs in three flavors
Basic Fodder
Heavily Armored/Better Trained
Elite/Superpowered
I'm just saying that the combat division isn't gonna be the jump to Elite/Superpowered but the more natural progression of better armed and trained
But again thier just fodder, To give your hero a massive bodycount or quality wins - Xandrud, Enyo maybe Kalen since his a legit captain... Rhainnon if you feel dickish with Ashella-

We're a having a debate over the effectiveness of fodder XD

[krisslanza]

Thier using the Combat division sprites
At that point you've already encountered one of the Combat division that's assinged to help the Rogue's and you run into a couple more of them setting at the mess hall later. So it stands to reason that those were combat division members, But i'll admit i'm just assuming they are combant division members they could be more like the first pikeman a well equipped Rogue member.

I'm not saying they can't be a threat, but generally fodder runs in three flavors
Basic Fodder
Heavily Armored/Better Trained
Elite/Superpowered
I'm just saying that the combat division isn't gonna be the jump to Elite/Superpowered but the more natural progression of better armed and trained
But again thier just fodder, To give your hero a massive bodycount or quality wins - Xandrud, Enyo maybe Kalen since his a legit captain... Rhainnon if you feel dickish with Ashella-

We're a having a debate over the effectiveness of fodder XD

I imagine not everyone using the "guard" sprite is really a member of the Combat Division by default. After all, the game is only using the default RPGMaker icons and sprites. There's not really a lot of leeway with those.

[mafagafe]

I wish that KITA see all that coments above, and realize how we care about his game and come back soon as possible =P.

[UnsungHero]

However before we go into Fodder dynamics and RPG herione power

Let me offer my opinion on the H-scenes Kita

Granted straight up, Forced sex is nowhere near my favorite thing but Hey you only get the forced stuff if you lose- and I don't lose okay maybe for completionist sake- Heck my favorite H-game is Brave Soul where the sex/relatioship come from geneuine bonding-you should already guess wht I'm gonna tell you are the best scenes then-

You pretty much hit the wide range of gambits of fetishes -Bondage, Bestial, Forced Gangbang-By black guys no less- Tentacles, Futanari and Lesbian.

However the generally forced sex in games like this is to reinforce the debauchery/evilness of the villians, IE when you reload you want to see these SOBS butchered like cattle and Enyo's Sai specific scene and Xandrud's do just that as there the two best at what thier suppose to do.

Xandrud is a massive prick -Ha the pun- that needs to be castrated-to bad you only remove an easily replaced arm with mad science and arcane knowledge- and the Fact he delights in it so much. Makes winning the round 2 with him all the sweeter.

Enyo comes off as petty in the other routes, too emotional detached to care what she's ordering her minions to do.... on Sai's route... She's not detached, She's completely Deranged. I mean you'd think a naked Enyo would be arousing -Xandrud isn't cause his see through- instead it's kinda frightening with how clearly over the edge she is. granted I thought she'd do the more humilating thing to Sai by well... making her suck it out since Enyo has Pyscho lesbian obessive traits toward Sai instead you went with the saner just spray option since you'd already established how nuts Enyo is.


These two are the best of the Forced/Defiling scenes

So what scenes of more consensual nature do i think were good

Romantic encounter is easily my favorite since you the player can't help but feel equally happy for Lanie and Renford as they have a wonderful night of passion.

Thyme's scene is also a strong one as it tells you alot about Thyme and why even though she's the loosiest of the girls, even she finds the Syndicate Sobs sick bastards for how they treat others.

I liked the Dark encounter touch of it doesn't effect purity nor the other three stats... Making you wonder if it was real or not, whether the Demon was real or was just a dream materialiaztion represting Irine repressed yearnings. -Note please tell me I get to kill Archbishop whats his name in the Inquistional section... please-

Scenes I don't think work that well -Still working on Asella's but iget the feeling Fierce encounter is gonna go here-

Dreaming of Dastor
This one doesn't work cause I feel your trying to fight an uphill battle on ice skates.
Emilia has no real reason to long for Dastor... period sorry Kita trying to add in a feel bad for the poor idiot isn't gonna work here
Emilia is for the most part the second most fervored in her hate of the syndicate and those that partake of its vices. the fact she would dream and then want one of the guys that defiled her -and didn't show the damn sense to have an escape plan, sense he seemed to be content to LEAVE HER THERE/didn''t see the back stab coming... HIS TOO STUPID TO LIVE.
I mean her feeling bad that he was killed sure.

Honestly the Dream pretty much plays out with the "please just leave me" option since that makes the most sense with Emilia's character

It's the H option that just doesn't work for me.
I get what your going for, She feels guilty that he got killed strictly cause she's kinda oblivious to other people's affectiona leading him to go to such an extreme -Horrible and horribly Stupid- solution. I just don't buy it cause that seems to contradict Emilia's character stance of You get what you deserve for your actions and how she sees those that benefit from the Syndicates vices/

"Dastor" appears and confesses, Emilia overcome gives him what he wanted willingly and then wonders if it was real or a dream. I just don't buy that with Emilia's character. Her forgiving maybe... sexing no just no

I guess the thing that gets me is it's kinda poorly set up, as opposed to Irine's which is hinted at so you can intrepret "Dark encounter" a number of ways.


Other Ramblings

Hmmm certains NPCs stand out more then the others I wonder if this is clever setup or just a case of I wanted a npc that sticks out to you for no reason XD.

In Chamber
In the Stalls the guy in Green Armor gives off an aura of "Don't screw with me" in a similar vein of a You'll see this guy later vibe possibly a Combat division Member having his way with his favorite girl.

Of couse you have Sephiroth up top in the bunny girls room talking abouth is burning rage... but Seph doesn't like girls he only wants up cloud's butt! -No scenes in the three nice Chamber rooms Hmmph XD-

The Cat girl of course

The Bar has a very interesting NPC across from Renford...
Everybody else minus Renford is clearly some bridgade, sailor or syndicate member getting boozed up... yet you have a cloaked Female trying to enjoy some tea in the middle of it.

you guys got one that stuck out to you?

[krisslanza]

I imagine for Dastor, it's meant to be the not-so-uncommon fantasy that women - and actually men, or anyone in power - have that they actually fantasize about rape. Emilia may not LOVE Dastor, considering he's not really anyone she knew, but he's someone she knows and (I'm assuming you won't get the scene if you never got captured) considering he rapes her... that could be it. It could, of course, just be that deep down, Emilia is pretty perverted, she simply doesn't let those feelings out. That's also kind of a part of GoR games, is that you can either corrupt, or being out that corruption that they always had, and have it come out. Just because Emilia hates the Syndicate, doesn't really mean she has to hate some of the vices they indulge in.

I'm sure that didn't come out as I imagined it though, but eh. Also, offhand, Emilia DID try to save Dastor's life even after the rape. Just because he took advantage of her, doesn't really mean she wants him dead. Actually, on further thought, indulging in the dream is probably out-of-character for Emilia, but exists because... well, you as the player can have Emilia spiraling into sin and corruption by that point. I was actually kind of hoping if you rejected Dastor, there'd be a scene with Gwyn actually.

I can't particularly comment on any other character, as I've only extensively played with Emilia. I love the dynamic with Gwyn though, and if you fail a particular timed segment, it makes me feel pretty awful.

[UnsungHero]

I just don't think it's set up that well

As you pointed out Emilia at that point could have easily given up her values since a trip to the chamber is required for the scene, -Though that brings up the question of whether the perversion is some deep rooted issue or a matter of emotional mental stress in the current enviroment- or Deep Down Emilia is just a sexpot wanted to get out - I prefer not to think that but heh it could be shrugs-

I hate to go back to it, but Irine's issue is actaul pretty well set up, as Irine mentions that she's had issues with lust and her sexuality for years even in a high purity run and Irine is tied with Asella as the Purest starting character. So Yeah Emilia being 90 pure at the start doesn't mean she doesn't have some deep seated sexual longings...

The problem is for the most part Emilia in high purity comes off as someone whose oblivious/ or more concerned with her fighting ability/goals then getting laid. Hence why i don't think the scene really works, It just seems to play on an Emilia i don't know. -shrugs- That and it's suppose to be the equivalent of a romance scene like Lanie's or Thyme's specials, and Well I already explained why that notion irks me.

and yes Gywn being right there is somewhat frustrating... but all HRPG's have thier moments of cockteasing,

and I was right I'm not that fond of Fierce Encounter... any of it's outcomes

If you lose... Rhiannon goes too far -Maybe some Lesbian grudge ****ing to get out her anger at Asella- it's getting one of the Syndicate member to essential help her rape Asella... it's kinda hard to look at Rhiannon the same way in her playthrough now especailly when she makes her stance on how low she views the syndicate.

If you Win... Asella doesn't come off any better -Granted to get it Asella's values must already be in the bucket- showing for a Knight she's rather petty.

IDK scenes where the characters your suppose to root for act no better then the villians just bug me.

[krisslanza]

I always figured Emilia's somewhat low starting purity has to reflect all the people she's killed. But then again, it probably means sexual purity, and we know Emilia isn't a virgin... she may have some kind of repressed sexual urges, which is entirely possible.

I also always figured almost any sex option, perhaps beyond Gwyn's given the nature of them, are really more intended to be for low purity characters. High purity versions exist because, well, you can totally make them do them anyway if you want. Speaking of Rhiannon and Asella, I have to wonder when, or if, you'll meet the other adventurers. Also, you have to keep in mind, that while Asella is a Paladin of sorts (I think), her bio mentions she really hates low-class or peasant-type people, she's not exactly a nice person to someone like Rhiannon, who is essentially a bandit.

[Lucky777]

I always figured Emilia's somewhat low starting purity has to reflect all the people she's killed.

Purity is "sexual purity", accordin' to KITA, although as a sort of fluke-ish thing, some characters are less opposed to killing while they're less pure.

Killing doesn't lower your purity, for example, so even if you didn't have word of God on it, you'd still know.

And to Unsung as to fierce encounter: Rhiannon's both a bandit and a baller.

Root for whoever the fuck you want, she's in character.

[krisslanza]

I always figured Emilia's somewhat low starting purity has to reflect all the people she's killed.

Purity is "sexual purity", accordin' to KITA, although as a sort of fluke-ish thing, some characters are less opposed to killing while they're less pure.

Killing doesn't lower your purity, for example, so even if you didn't have word of God on it, you'd still know.

And to Unsung as to fierce encounter: Rhiannon's both a bandit and a baller.

Root for whoever the fuck you want, she's in character.

Yeah I figured purity meant sexual purity, but it does seem as that lowers they do become a bit more depraved, so maybe it kind of flows both ways. For instance, I don't think Irine will kill the sleeping bandit near the start because her purity is too high to begin with. It's probably just a design choice to not need a SECOND kind of purity (which would quickly end up in the negatives, with the impressive killcount you rack up) but, yeah. (Although, I guess one could argue it's different to kill someone in self-defense, or is at least capable of defending themselves, over killing an unaware and defenseless man.)

[Lucky777]

One could make that argument, but all one needs to do to TEST that argument is to see if purity is lowered by doing the SPECIFIC killing which high purity would forbid.

I have not checked, since I'm relying on word of God, but I'm confident that you'd find THAT PARTICULAR killing also has absolutely no effect on purity.

Conduct that test and there ends the matter.

Besides, the men a high purity Emilia killed prior to entering the dungeon would have been able combatants ably engaged in combat, not sleeping fellows, I have to assume.

So even then her score would not have been dropped from 100 by anything nonsexual.
That would co-incide with the fact that it is not dropped from 100, in-game, for Emilia or for anyone else, by anything nonsexual.
(So why DO you need low purity to kill a helpless guy, then?
*shrugs*
Fuck if I know.)

[krisslanza]

Pretty sure Emilia's 90 purity is because she's not a virgin, so she's certainly had sex a few times at least.

Then again, as an aside, the absence of a hymen isn't really a good indicator of virginity or not, considering physical activity can break it as well, and considering Emilia's profession... still, I don't think she has a "virgin" scene.

[Lucky777]

Yeah, Emilia's definitely not a virgin, there's no question about that.

That's also why her purity starts at 90, there's little to no question about that.

Of course, there are later sex-scenes which RAISE purity, because I think the final decision Kita settled on (or at least, final a WHILE ago) was that purity related to how closely a chick related sex with emotional commitment, or something.
The definition of purity changed over time, I think, and I don't know if it has been fully determined in concrete terms as yet.

I don't know if the purity-raising sex-scenes can put you up to 100, and I also don't give the slightest hint or faintest suggestion of a flying fuck in PRACTICAL terms, since I have no use for sappy shit, but in THEORETICAL terms, it might be amusing to find out.
Perhaps, if so, a non-virgin could even be "purer than" or "equally pure to" a virgin, in game terms?
That'd be amusing.
Anyway, the full and concrete definition of the mechanic doesn't really matter: the one thing that IS clear is that purity is sexual in nature.

And since you might not have been around when it was discussed, I'll mention that there's one final rider on all of this mildly entertaining discussion, which is that the purity system's current numerical representation doesn't fully match with KITA's intentions for it as yet.
For example, it's supposed to stop at 0, no matter how much fun it may be to see it in the negatives: he just hasn't implemented that stopping-point as yet.

[UnsungHero]

I always figured Emilia's somewhat low starting purity has to reflect all the people she's killed.

Purity is "sexual purity", accordin' to KITA, although as a sort of fluke-ish thing, some characters are less opposed to killing while they're less pure.

Killing doesn't lower your purity, for example, so even if you didn't have word of God on it, you'd still know.

And to Unsung as to fierce encounter: Rhiannon's both a bandit and a baller.

Root for whoever the fuck you want, she's in character.

Asella and Rhiannon beating the hell out of each other isn't really the issue and Yeah the two are pretty much polar opposites in temperment... It's that wierd area. Rhiannon has her temper. It's the indulge the syndicate member in what he does bit that gets me. IDK it's hard to describe. and Granted the fight only happens if you delibratly choose to be a Douchebag -Which is the dumbest thing you can do when surrounded by enemies.- but ehh. Yeah it's in character though
Rhiannon is very upfront, Asella is the very definition on Knight templar the two clashing makes sense. -Though Lumina atleast has the good sense to keep who the real enemy at the moment in sight-

Similar to how Thyme and Irine are set up to be opposites of each other. -though they can be civil about it-

Enyo is of course.... Insane Sairyn.

Emilia, Cesca, Lanie are out of luck XD though you could argue Nebula is pretty clear to be Lanie's Rival -maybe they'll fight over Renford XD-


On Purity and Killing, I always took Purity as overall sexual experience and values -seeing as purity goes down eventually the girl becomes your standard slut and stops giving a crap... and is only a few gangbangs away from the blanked eyed girls below-


The problem with killing sleeping opponents is Irine is the only one who doesn't do it by default, everybody else knows what the majority of the guys will do to them if thier awake so taking them out as quickly as possible makes sense even Cesca does it. -Thyme's first sleeping kill is easily the most brutal and the reason you love Thyme so much!-
I guess you could argue is though Irine is willing to fight/kill she does not have the soldier instinct to kill a defenseless opponent... regardless of whether she knows it's the smartest thing to do.

For every Wolfram and Guillard there are 50 wannabe Xandruds... lord knows one Xandrud is a enough