html5 LoK?

[MirceaKitsune]

I will be honest... I've never been a big fan of flash. Although it's a good system, I believe it has its limits and I'm also not a fan of its single closed-source development tool (Adobe Flash). So my interest in 2D browser-based gaming has been shifted toward the closest technology compared to flash, java / javascript + html5. I haven't tried many such games yet, but there are websites such as this one with some nice examples.

I know LoK is already done in flash and there will certainly not be a html5 version (since it would mean starting everything from a scratch). But a lot of people made their own games with the textures and sounds from LoK. I was wondering if anyone made (or plans to make) a javascript / html5 LoK game, which they're ok with sharing and letting us know about. Anyone know of such a thing... even some screenshots or plans?

I also heard of another technology called webGL, which lets OpenGL games run in a browser. I think it's mostly for 3D (not sprite based) projects, but maybe a LoK version with this system could also be an idea.

[BlueLight]

God no! Please no Javascript. It was made by the demons of the browser community!

edit
So from what i understand from googles tech videos, HTML 5 is more powerful and stable to Java script which is a great thing since HTML sucks.
As for your thing about hating Java, and flash; I don't understand it. Flash is used because it works on many platforms and is easy to make art in (I'm watering this down a lot. Sorry.) Java is great and the only reason I can really think of for why you wouldn't use it compared to HTML5 is because you don't have the JRE.
But lets say you have your browser and java and for some reason you don't want to use your browser. Well you can't really run .HTML files with out it. True the same can be said about java since without the JRE it wont run but there is software out there that will allow you to run .class files without java persay. Eclipse is one of them. It's easier to get your hand on java files than HTML files in a downloadable link. Now i don't know if those games you can just rip the HTML5 code out and it will work but if i remember my HTML4 well enough, then to keep from making copies you will save you pictures and non HTML files in a different folder. Basically your problem is that you don't know for sure if you have all the files.

Now you could have the same trouble with java where you lack a file but that's only because the person is a bozo who doesn't follow convention.

[MirceaKitsune]

God no! Please no Javascript. It was made by the demons of the browser community!

I was thinking of javascript because it's easy, and doesn't require compiling and exporting your program (like java). At the same time, I can imagine that's probably more limited. Normal java is good too, and I'm also curious for a version of LoK using that. I think that's done by making a java applet game so it can be integrated into the browser (like MineCraft is). Not sure if you can make html5 games with something other than java and jscript, but any other language is fine too.

[BlueLight]

God no! Please no Javascript. It was made by the demons of the browser community!

I was thinking of javascript because it's easy, and doesn't require compiling and exporting your program (like java). At the same time, I can imagine that's probably more limited. Normal java is good too, and I'm also curious for a version of LoK using that. I think that's done by making a java applet game so it can be integrated into the browser (like MineCraft is). Not sure if you can make html5 games with something other than java and jscript, but any other language is fine too.

We compile things so we don't have to compile things when we run the program each time. Might as well add basic to the list if we're talking about stuff that needs to be compiled.

From what i understand about the HTML5, you should be able to do it with little or no Javascript.
You can run a java program with applet and it require a extra file to be used but making it not the big deal. Putting it in to a browser is if you don't know what your doing like me.

As for compiling java... really? That's the major down side to it? I have to constantly recompile my code everyday . It's as easy as hitting the run button.

GRRRR!!!!! *So i'm a bit on edge today. Didn't help to see java mocked like this.*

[OwnerOfSuccuby]

Just think about 1 thing =)))

How will you do animation of sex on Java Script ))) And how long will it takes )) May be i am wrong - but for me it sounds like painting in pascal

And i little do not understand why flash is bad. It can beintegrated in html as java script, some computers do not suport javascript as some do not suport flash.
Flash works good on android (i test it by my self), flash can use functions and vars of java script on page in wich them are integrated.

So i do not understand a little why a lot of people do not like flash =)))

[BlueLight]

I find it shock to hear some computers don't support java script . I mean normally the information for reading the script is done by the browser.

Anyways in theory all the requirements for java script are requirements for flash but flash has more. So in that sense java script is better but that's comparing apples and bananas.
I personally dislike the idea of using ActionScript and flash because I've seen to many shoty jobs done with it and in all fairness the same is likely with java but i haven't seen done yet.
While i dislike the idea of programming in actionscript I am willing to accept it as way to easily programming with flash and a good way at that (I know, one minute i'm bashing it and the next i'm praising it).

[OwnerOfSuccuby]

I am not good in English. So i do not understand half of what are you talking about

I mean that JS can be turned of some times. For example a lot of stupid banners on page or some stupid functions that opens new windows and etc..

Some times you turn it off =) Or may be some body use some kind of old browser.

About JavaScript and HTML = it can move bjects and it have timer. But it have not this own movie redactor. How will you make some animation in JS - by code. Flash was more like photoshop or movie maker (just see: adobe - photoshop/aftereffects/... a lot of programs of working with graphick).

I think the big mistake is that they make AS3 - if they upgrade more AS2 - it will be no needs in HTML5. I mean only for web to make web site looks better. But they start to make 100500 of different languages - they become much harder to use then - so HTML5 is so popular now. But may be i am wrong.

I start with AS2 - i really liked it. But when they start making AS3 they start to kill AS2 - and for me AS3 is like shit.

When they make AS2 they have no competitor -it was the best program for work with Internet Graphickfor me.

But for what is AS3 ? It is much much more harder and uncomfortable to use. It does not solve any new problems for me that AS2 can not.

So as i understand they try to put programming in there program - but Flash can not compete with C++ and other modern languges.
And for working with animation it becomes more uncomfortable. So they are idiots working there i think

Sorry for my bad english

[Eggplants]

I completely agree with you OwnerOfSuccuby because I really think Macromedia had a good thing going with AS2. I think it's because of Adobe's professional standards that made them make AS3. . . Unless I've got the story all wrong.

But to the original topic, I've pretty much fallen in love with game maker. It makes .exe games(yes I know flash can do that too) but there is a version that allows you to make html5 games with it. They're not as fast as the .exe games but with a game like LoK that probably wouldn't be a problem. The biggest problem would just be you wouldn't get to play with the vectors which I personally love flash for.

[Thaedael]

Vectors make flash flash for me. I am sick of frame by frame pixel animation, I am 6 months 3 weeks, and 2 days into my project. I have probably spent in the realm of 800 hours in pixel art animations alone and only got the first city and a bit done.

[MirceaKitsune]

I completely agree with you OwnerOfSuccuby because I really think Macromedia had a good thing going with AS2. I think it's because of Adobe's professional standards that made them make AS3. . . Unless I've got the story all wrong.

But to the original topic, I've pretty much fallen in love with game maker. It makes .exe games(yes I know flash can do that too) but there is a version that allows you to make html5 games with it. They're not as fast as the .exe games but with a game like LoK that probably wouldn't be a problem. The biggest problem would just be you wouldn't get to play with the vectors which I personally love flash for.

I looked at game maker a bit already. GM2 is not open source, but the classic one is and it looks good. I'm not sure if that one can make html5 games too, or how much it's being maintained.

Vectors make flash flash for me. I am sick of frame by frame pixel animation, I am 6 months 3 weeks, and 2 days into my project. I have probably spent in the realm of 800 hours in pixel art animations alone and only got the first city and a bit done.

If vector means skeletal animation for sprites, I have to agree. I dislike the old animation method too (having a different image for each position and cycling between images every X milliseconds to make your character move). It's of much higher quality to animate sprites with an armature (like you do with 3D meshes) and flash indeed has that. I'm curious if HTML5 games also support this feature in any form. Although I looked for this info, I could never find an answer. It would be nice if other web-browser game engines supported this feature.

[Thaedael]

Vector is an image storage type, all the lines and shapes are stored in a mathematical formula that is only drawn when asked, and as such can be infinitely scaled without rasterization. Its a superior data storage, and cross platform usability.

[MirceaKitsune]

Vector is an image storage type, all the lines and shapes are stored in a mathematical formula that is only drawn when asked, and as such can be infinitely scaled without rasterization. Its a superior data storage, and cross platform usability.

Oh, I see. That sounds very useful and great... I wasn't fully aware this was possible. Like I said I believe it would be nice if other game formats supported such technologies (both vector imaging and skeletal animations like I mentioned earlier). Flash in general is good, but I'd like to see other ways to use the good technologies too.

[Thaedael]

There are vector non-flashed base games, it's becoming more and popular as time moves on.

[BlueLight]

There are vector non-flashed base games, it's becoming more and popular as time moves on.

Sounds like something, someone with OOP in mind, would do.
"Object Oriented Programming."

[Thaedael]

If you have infinite scaling graphics that can be re-rendered at any given time using little cpu, the possibilities are there for many things. Down side is that it doesn't encompass a lot of stuff we like in games, such as rendered textures.

[BlueLight]

If you have infinite scaling graphics that can be re-rendered at any given time using little cpu, the possibilities are there for many things. Down side is that it doesn't encompass a lot of stuff we like in games, such as rendered textures.

If you can make a reoccurring pattern of pixels and be able to bend them with a mesh, then i don't why you can do this as a object. I don't know if it would be worth the time of humans to do it personally because just thing of all the objects you'd have to make.

[Thaedael]

For people that ever used vector programs outside of flash, the annoyances of vector programs right now are vast, and unless used for specific purposes is a pain in the ass. However due to it's ability to be stored as giant mathematical equations, imagine a game like homeworld, being infinitely scalable, size wise, as well as the fact only the areas you are at being actually rendered but the non rendered parts being small enough so that effects can be happening sans loading screens and the like.

Either way I am excited for the future of vectors, though it will need to be a lot more user-friendly. The best vector artist I know is Kuja and before I die I want to learn from him how to make beautiful art.

[IrrelevantComment]

I think the big mistake is that they make AS3 - if they upgrade more AS2 - it will be no needs in HTML5. I mean only for web to make web site looks better. But they start to make 100500 of different languages - they become much harder to use then - so HTML5 is so popular now. But may be i am wrong.
I start with AS2 - i really liked it. But when they start making AS3 they start to kill AS2 - and for me AS3 is like shit.
When they make AS2 they have no competitor -it was the best program for work with Internet Graphickfor me.
But for what is AS3 ? It is much much more harder and uncomfortable to use. It does not solve any new problems for me that AS2 can not.
So as i understand they try to put programming in there program - but Flash can not compete with C++ and other modern languges.

Firstly, C++ isn't really a modern language, it is outdated and inferior to C# or Java.
Secondly, upgrading AS2, if it were possible, would have no impact on HTML5. HTML 5 exists for two main reasons:
1) Flash is closed source, and completely controlled by Adobe, which nobody likes. Flash Pro is really expensive, and in the case of CS5, really buggy.
2) Apple don't like not owning a share of a market. For all Steve Jobs' "You shouldn't need a plug in to view content on websites" (unless it's Quicktime on the Apple website), the real reason Apple support HTML 5 over Flash is that Adobe own Flash and Apple are partly in charge of developing HTML5.

Thirdly, and more importantly, they COULDN'T upgrade AS2, because it was so broken. It was an incredibly inefficient language, which is why AS3 can run up to ten times as fast. The brilliant thing about AS3 is that you can create Flash games without ever opening Flash Professional - it is a self sustaining language.

[BlueLight]

Firstly, C++ isn't really a modern language, it is outdated and inferior to C# or Java.
Secondly, upgrading AS2, if it were possible, would have no impact on HTML5. HTML 5 exists for two main reasons:

C++ is still used and from what I can tell the standard for computer languages for Windows at least. C++ is faster than anything i know of and I believe part of the reason is because they don't have all the safety checks other languages have. For instants i could have a variable named "(#*$#%&%#YOUASSWIPE!!!" and C++ would accept it because it doesn't run a check. Java wont do this because it checks for a set type of characters which are letters and if not the first character than also numbers.

[MirceaKitsune]

1) Flash is closed source, and completely controlled by Adobe, which nobody likes. Flash Pro is really expensive, and in the case of CS5, really buggy.

The main reason why I also don't like flash. Technically it's great... but I like games that are programmed with open-source technologies not owned by a company which everyone depend on.

As for C++, it's certainly been around for a while, but still used today for modern projects. I can't say it feels outdated to me (even if I'm still a noob programmer). C# and newer ones are of course newer.