Something a little different

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Something a little different

Postby Merek » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:59 pm

Edit: Somehow, I uploaded a slightly older version. This SWF should be (a little) less buggy.

Hey guys!

So I was pretty inspired when Playshapes first released Legend of K, and got to work pretty quick messing with it. I
realized from the start that I couldn't do everything the game needed, but thought it would be a fun chance to learn
how something like this worked, and improve my AS/general flash skill.

When I first stumbled on this forum, I thought "Oh cool, but it probably isn't going anywhere." Then I saw some of the
stuff you were making and an eyebrow went up (in a good way). Then I saw Vixentamer's stuff and my jaw hit the
floor. The organization could still be tricky, but you guys have the potential for something really cool here. With that
in mind, I humbly submit the results of my tinkering, in the hope that some bits or pieces from it might benefit the
general effort.

I'll also go into more detail on what I changed/added below in case anyone's interested. But it's gonna be a wall of
text, so be warned. Feel free to just skip ahead to the download.

So most of the changes I made were behind the scenes, tweaks or complete overhauls in how the fla was structured, or the
actionscript written. This file (As you'll notice once you open the FLA) is actually completely re-built from the
ground up, rather than simply being a tweak of the original.Mostly I did this because the original was so top-heavy it
was impossible to work with, but I had the chance to improve a lot of small things along the way. Here's a few of the
problems I tried to improve:

a. Simplified the main time line

Playshapes original file had something like 400 layers on the main time line. With due respect to him, this made me
want to shoot myself. Mine has roughly 18, and many of these could be cut. What's important here though is the reason
behind the numbers: basically, there was a new layer for every object in the original. This was bad because it took
forever to find something, and especially in a collab. project like this, clear, understandable organization is
very, very important. The core, important layers in my new file are:

-Label layer (Like before)
-Two script Layers (One just stops things, could probably be eliminated with better actionscript)
-An interface layer (for the buttons, exp points, etc)
-A shadow layer (should be combined with the next two eventually)
-A Foreground layer (stuff in front of Krystal)
-Krystal's layer
-A Background Layer (stuff behind Krystal)

There are other layers, but they're mostly sloppy left-overs that could and should be blended into the others.
These layers, combined with a lot of movie clips (no more raw shapes everywhere) make it easy to find what you're
looking for, and to understand where it is in relation to everything else. Heavy use of "Bring to front" also helps :P.


b. Massively simplified Krystal's movement mechanism
A lot of my changes were actionscript ones, and this was one of the biggest. In flash, certain things are better done
with actionscript, others with movieclips. I felt like this was clearly an AS problem, and could be done much more
easily if I let it do all the heavy lifting.

To review, Playshapes had an intricate system where he would have two avatars on each screen and activate one of them
depending on which way you entered the screen and detect when you were at the edge of the screen with hit detection
on two invisible movie clips and have them forward you. So to be clear, we had four movie clips PER SCREEN dealing
with the movement mechanism, each with their own independent actionscript that had to be hunted down and changed if new
rooms were to be added or changes made. Again, with respect, desire to shoot myself rising.

The new system uses one movie clip. One. I have Krystal's avatar on a separate layer that passes through all the
others with no keyframes. Then I use actionscript on the main AS layer to move her, and to keep track of two things:

where she is (x coordinate) and what room we're in. When she "hits" either side of the current room, it shows up
as either a particularly low or high x number, and the script catches it. It then

-decides whether we're going right or left (based on whether that x number is low or high)
-increments the room variable accordingly
-checks to see which room we should be in based on the new variable and a table it has and
-puts us in that room.

The massive advantage this system has, apart from visual simplicity, is that everything is in one central place. Want
to change her movement speed, for example? Tweak the code once. In the old system you'd have to change code on every
screen. Again, this is just good programming, but it's especially important when people are going to collaborate.

c. Invented a standardized dialogue box

I strongly feel that dialogue boxes should be standard. Again, this means using a little more actionscript. In the
new system, the dialogue is stored in an AS table, then fed out to a Dynamic text field. This means formatting stays
consistent, and that it's easier to add new lines: all you have to do is add to the table, rather than add new frames
and painstakingly type in the new stuff, struggling to make sure you don't screw up the formatting somewhere. Even
better, with a few tweaks you can copy-paste this dialogue box clip wherever you need one, without having to re-invent
the wheel for each new time the characters talk.

Admittedly, my design may be a little basic, but that's just cosmetic: the look is a separate sub-clip: feel free to swap
it out.

d. Toyed with a new game mechanic

This is more experimental, and you can make of it what you will. I enjoyed the original L of K, but most of the fun came from simply exploring. Which was fine, but I wanted to try to add a little challenge to the game. So I created something called the corruption system.

In the original, if I remember correctly, if Krystal is too messy she doesn't get any xp. I decided to run with that and expand it. Now messiness actually makes you gain xp faster, but with a downside: the messier you are, the faster you accumulate corruption. Max out corruption and you lose. So it's a struggle between trying to level fast and without tipping the corruption over the top. And if you want to avoid racking up corruption too fast, you can bathe and reset the messiness (I've actually added fast travel to that screen for just this reason).

At the same time, xp is more varied now. The fancier/more brutal acts give more xp (and also more corruption). Some of them are so intense that you have to be sparkling clean before hand or you'll lose by default.

Along with this, I also designed a few different "Bad ends" to appear depending on exactly how you fail. This adds to the replayability, and also to the challenge as players try to find them all. There are only three at the moment, one of which I've disabled because there's no way to avoid it yet, and the animation for the other two is a little rough: they're meant as rough proof-of-concept.

Anyhow, just an idea I was toying with. Like I said, make of it what you will. Oh, and there's more that a few minor bugs, or things that aren't quite finished. Hopefully it'll still prove interesting/useful.

SWF (see above)

FLA
Last edited by Merek on Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Poob » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:33 pm

I think you've got a lot of potential with these ideas. You're right that in a collaborative project like this, organization is incredibly important.

I don't mean to speak for him, but I'm sure Renara would appreciate some help from someone who's got such a strong grasp on ActionScripting.

I really think you've got a lot of value to add to the project, so I hope you stick around and find your niche :)

As a small aside, for your movement system, would it be able to work with exits that aren't at either end of the stage -- like, say, a trapdoor in the middle of a scene?


EDIT: As far as I can tell, the FLA you uploaded is corrupted. I'm gonna try the swf now.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Kalypso » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:44 pm

After playing through the 'simplified' version I'm a bit impressed. 2MB felt like a soft luxury, and so did the wide-screen. I loved moving up and down through the screen--but at the same time, I question it's further use. It brings sort of an arcade style to the playing field, but destroys the restricted movement you had before. It could call for an overhaul in movement scheme, and invisible obstacles--which I'm never fond of.
The only thing I'm a bit on the "eh" side about is corruption. Now, don't get be wrong here. This is another thing I'm thinking can either be awesome with other features involved, or totally annoying. I know from experience that game overs in H-flash games don't make me want to continue playing it. If we offered a save option, this would be a great feature. Or, maybe if corruption forced you to have sex with the person instead of simply walking by them, naturally creating obstacles. Although, this creates a new idea entirely, where certain enemies, by default, could rape you if you tried to walk by them. Possibilities, possibilities...
--
Overall, I'm impressed. Props on the wide-screen and size-drop. But I'm not completely sure about the arcade-style movement and corruption, because while these might be good changes, these drastically change the status of the game, and could only be rebalanced without adding even more things to the game--just wait til' Renara, Playshapes, QQ, etc. check your fix out.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Poob » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:03 pm

My sentiments basically echo Kalypso's. I was also unable to find any of the hidden corruption scenes.

The wide screen, with zooming for specific scenes, was particularly awesome though.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby -QQ- » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:38 pm

after viewing your version of v1 i can say you do have some skill in action scripting and but you have some flaws that obviously weren't in the original. and i do like the wide screen but you also need to make it so that all your charters are visible so there are no visual changes from main scene to sex scene. as for the corruption i do not see any particular use for it as it did not give me any obvious new choices. your dialogue box was in my face when i didn't want it and also was to big and took up a lot of the screen. okay its said its easier to criticize than praise so here are the things i did like. i liked that you sped up the movement and, i also liked the idea of scenes have dialogue in them this idea is starting to be used already in new scenes that are in an idea state. i also liked your way of punting in the background and such. I think that you might be more oriented to action scripting though i wouldn't really know since you only showed this flash as an example of your abilities i would also like to see anything else you have made/drawn etc. porn or non porn related to get an idea of where you stand also were you can be useful. overall grade on your flash B though (b^ ^)b keep on improving and playing with it we will let you know if were going to use any of your ideas.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby trunks2585 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:12 am

hate to say it but your fast travel bath button is one of those bugs that's not working, and your corruption system currently doesn't work right either, it's still the same as playshapes, you get less exp for being messy rather than more, and corruption is always the same number as exp.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Merek » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:45 am

Cool to hear some comments. Let's see...


Bugs

It's buggy as hell in a lot of minor ways, but most of it is cosmetic, and things that I could probably fix if I took the time. It's more an issue of me not cleaning up my mess than anything :P.

-First of all, the up-down movement is a bug, one I thought I had patched :P. Kudos to you guys for being kind enough to assume it was an intentional feature though. The code I was originally working with had both in it, but there's no reason to have y-axis movement. It's easy enough to take out: just kill the function in the main actionscript layer.

- Not really a bug, but to clarify: the two game-overs are trigger thusly: one if you corruption tops out on the usual sharpclaw scenes, and one if it tops out on Scales (which is guaranteed if you do that scene while messy).

-The fast-travel does work, but you have to visit and use the bath once before it shows up, as with most fast-travel systems.

-As far as I can tell, my FLA is fine, but I'm re-uploading now just in case.


Other stuff:

Glad to see people like the wide-screen. Generally, things tend to be either a 4:3 or 16:9 ratio, and widescreen tends to work out better artistically in the long run. Right now, of course, the sudden shift means some of the scenes in mine look a little silly because they don't have enough art to fill the space, but ultimately that's the point: there's more room for art, and animation, and all the rest.

I'll also readily admit that I'm kind of a noob at actionscript. All of this is in 2.0, specifically because I can't wrap my head around the changes they made in 3. I'm willing to try to learn though. If anything, I can probably contribute most in terms of coding and writing (dialogue and such), but whether there's actually a need for that is up to the people running this project. I might also be able to "rig" some of the models, or vector them: that isn't too hard.

As a small aside, for your movement system, would it be able to work with exits that aren't at either end of the stage -- like, say, a trapdoor in the middle of a scene?


It would, but in that case, for example, it would probably make more sense to just make the door clickable and link to the next scene that way. If we needed to do movement out of a scene in some way other than left and right, I'd probably use hit detection on an invisible movieclip again, but in that case it would actually be justified, because we'd be trying to do something very weird and specific to one scene, not something simple and repetitive across all the screens.

Overall, I don't want to force myself on this project: the main reason for this upload was that I'd gone through a lot of the same problems and questions anyone would when trying to improve this game and I thought I might be able to help Renara in some small way by sharing notes: avoid re-inventing the wheel in a few areas maybe. Clearly there's already a fairly skilled team amassing here: coders, artists and so on. But if there is something I can contribute beyond this to the ongoing project, that would be awesome too. Just let me know.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Renara » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:39 am

Wow, some interesting work you've done here! I just wish .fla files were easier to integrate together as there is some stuff here I haven't done could be nice for my v0.2, though I'm delayed as it is so I don't think I'll have time to touch it.

Part of the plan of v0.3 is to greatly simplify ActionScript in this way while upgrading to AS 3.0, so only one player-character symbol is needed and so-on. Currently for v0.2 the ActionScript has been simplified in many parts, but the way the game is constructed is largely unchanged for now due this future plan.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby trunks2585 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:40 am

what exacally is the 'top out' on corruption? i've used the cheat to get it and exp up to 1000 but still nothing bad happens. (including being covered in cum) plus like i said i don't think the mecanic works right, it's still that you gain less exp for being messy than getting more exp and more corruption. I've tried playing this in both firefox and flash player, same problems.

and i did visit the springs first, you jump in the first time and the button appears just fine, but then the button won't send you to the springs, regardless of how many frames away you are from it.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby -QQ- » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:46 am

okay merek i went through your fla file i do like you game over files but i couldn't find any corruption or new scenes were just bouncing it as an idea or did you have content created for it?
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Merek » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:05 am

trunks2585 Wrote:what exacally is the 'top out' on corruption? i've used the cheat to get it and exp up to 1000 but still nothing bad happens. (including being covered in cum) plus like i said i don't think the mecanic works right, it's still that you gain less exp for being messy than getting more exp and more corruption. I've tried playing this in both firefox and flash player, same problems.

and i did visit the springs first, you jump in the first time and the button appears just fine, but then the button won't send you to the springs, regardless of how many frames away you are from it.


You get corruption by having sex while "messy." The messier, the more corruption. So the easiest way to jack it up is to cheat the xp, then go to either the group of 'Claws by the table or Scales and keep doing it until you reach the limit. Not sure about the button: guess I'll have to look at it again.

-QQ- Wrote:okay merek i went through your fla file i do like you game over files but i couldn't find any corruption or new scenes were just bouncing it as an idea or did you have content created for it?


I just realized I uploaded a slightly older version of the SWF. My FLA SHOULD have been the right one, I have no idea how I would have screwed that up, but who knows *Laughs*. If the scenes are there, they'll be the last thing on the main timeline.


Renara Wrote:Wow, some interesting work you've done here! I just wish .fla files were easier to integrate together as there is some stuff here I haven't done could be nice for my v0.2, though I'm delayed as it is so I don't think I'll have time to touch it.

Part of the plan of v0.3 is to greatly simplify ActionScript in this way while upgrading to AS 3.0, so only one player-character symbol is needed and so-on. Currently for v0.2 the ActionScript has been simplified in many parts, but the way the game is constructed is largely unchanged for now due this future plan.


Whether you use any of my stuff, I would beg and plead with you to do what I did: start a new file and deliberately copy over only the symbols you need. Again, I don't want to be mean to PS, but there's just too much bloat in the original. Since I've already done this, using mine as a base and deleting/modding anything you don't want/need would save a lot of time, but that's up to you. It doesn't matter how, so much as that one way or another we start with a streamlined, stripped down version. The first draft just isn't practical for collaboration: there's so much there that I can barely view the fla without crashing Flash. Yes, it's a pain in the ass. But it's only going to get worse the longer it's left like that. It's like architecture: you've got to get the foundation right when you're building it, because going back later is hard if not impossible.

*Coughs* But yeah, sorry if that was a little strong. I'll go back to browsing the forum now.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby trunks2585 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:55 am

yeah now everything works like you described it, and i see that unavodable scene you mentioned.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Renara » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:46 pm

Merek Wrote:Whether you use any of my stuff, I would beg and plead with you to do what I did: start a new file and deliberately copy over only the symbols you need.

I've actually done the opposite; kept the original file and aggressively gone through renaming things such as the various "Tween n" or "mp3 117" and so-on, to have meaningful names. I've then swapped out the duplicates and removed everything that has zero links remaining, and at the same time re-structured the whole lot into useful folders so you can find things by category such as character pieces, scenes involving particular characters and so-on. Admittedly that's probably the biggest change in my version in terms of work involved, but it'll hopefully be worth it as the folder structure should be usable as an SVN folder structure later on.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Merek » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:21 am

Renara Wrote:
Merek Wrote:Whether you use any of my stuff, I would beg and plead with you to do what I did: start a new file and deliberately copy over only the symbols you need.

I've actually done the opposite; kept the original file and aggressively gone through renaming things such as the various "Tween n" or "mp3 117" and so-on, to have meaningful names. I've then swapped out the duplicates and removed everything that has zero links remaining, and at the same time re-structured the whole lot into useful folders so you can find things by category such as character pieces, scenes involving particular characters and so-on. Admittedly that's probably the biggest change in my version in terms of work involved, but it'll hopefully be worth it as the folder structure should be usable as an SVN folder structure later on.


Well any additional organization/simplification is better. I guess I'm concerned about two things: Speed/lag and how easy (or not) it is to find something you're looking for in the file. I'll have to look at .2 when it comes out and see what I think. Maybe all this worry was for nothing :P. Anyway, a great job over all, and keep it up. Can't wait to see where this project goes.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Ketsueki » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:54 am

Short, but slightly cleaner/completed version of the first file. Though as far as I can tell the only real 'endings' are corruption, and facing the big dino without being marked.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Blaze » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:01 pm

To be honest i really don't like the corruption system. My reasons are simply this game by the end will be quite big and it seems quite unfair to punish someone who wants see every scene. What i'm trying to say is that forcing people to go back and fourth between wash areas or else the game ends can become annoging espically when the game gets bigger.

On the point of the fast travel button, i'm slighty annoged that someone posted it before me but it is fair. My idea if you what to incorperate it, was a button in a bottm corner of the screen which would bring up a map. On this map would be every area you have visted and all wash areas you have used and you could fast travel to any of those wash areas. So if you had a favorite area you could get it quickly.
It is good to have some more people who can use actionscipt well, sorry if the comments seem to harsh.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby Merek » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:34 am

Blaze Wrote:To be honest i really don't like the corruption system. My reasons are simply this game by the end will be quite big and it seems quite unfair to punish someone who wants see every scene. What i'm trying to say is that forcing people to go back and fourth between wash areas or else the game ends can become annoging espically when the game gets bigger.

On the point of the fast travel button, i'm slighty annoged that someone posted it before me but it is fair. My idea if you what to incorperate it, was a button in a bottm corner of the screen which would bring up a map. On this map would be every area you have visted and all wash areas you have used and you could fast travel to any of those wash areas. So if you had a favorite area you could get it quickly.
It is good to have some more people who can use actionscipt well, sorry if the comments seem to harsh.



A valid and interesting problem. In my defense it was something I was playing with, rather than a finished and complete system I was happy with, but I agree that the washing could prove annoying. Ultimately, the goal was to provide some additional challenge to the player, above and beyond simply exploring. But if we're seeing it as a Lucas-Arts style adventure game then that really is the gameplay: exploring, talking to people and collecting items. I just wanted to see if I could push it into another genre.

I have to disagree on the fast travel though, only because I never meant it as a complete system, only as a simple hack to make the washing mechanism slightly less painful. A game-wide system is an interesting idea, and not that hard to impliment, but hopefully the activities required of the player for a given task will tend to cluster in a fairly local area, so such a system won't be absolutely necissary.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby nebrose » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:00 am

meh the endings kindof suck, i mean it just ends as krystal either being eater or becoming a sex slave, and i'd prefer to have the game go on longer before the latter happens. don't really care for the prior to happen at all...
i only give base ideas, ones that can be built off of, not ones with an end in sight. so don't ask me to give further detail on my ideas.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby OmniConfusion » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:02 am

Eh, I'm use to just clicking links and having whatever thing I was trying to get to viewable to me through the internet... As a result, having trouble being able to see this as I don't seem to have anything that can open either of those files, and when I tried googling it, well, it didn't exactly give me much help either. Basically, I'd like to see this, but don't know how to, and am asking for someone to help me if they don't mind, as on my own I am going nowhere :(.
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Re: Something a little different

Postby nebrose » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:24 am

the swf is able to be opened in internet explorer
i only give base ideas, ones that can be built off of, not ones with an end in sight. so don't ask me to give further detail on my ideas.
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