Another Tail ( News Update April 10, 2014 )

[Tovi]

I must say that just by getting the reference you did there at the title, I realized that this game will have potential. If you want to continue making metroid references, the best way to start is by making the actual gameplay work like metroid. This means exploration and free-roaming, perhaps puzzle-solving to some degree. I have yet to see actual gameplay, but so far this seems really promising!

[stefander867]

Please update this.

Learn to go back a few pages

[AwsomeAlien]

Your doing an awesome job from what I've seen, keep it up!

[vyor]

I thought you could key frame in flash though

[Jonesman64]

@ Jake
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2462#p148912

To update my status and situation:
Yes, I'm still here... still working on AT, if at a snails pace, when I can... there is still too much real life shit going on right now.

As I posted back in June (in another thread =/), this version of AT was corrupted to the extent that I lost 3 months worth of animations and sprites... well... corrupted is the wrong term. I know what happened now that I've played with Flash more... regardless, the data is lost. (PS: Don't use the "projects" feature of flash to share assets between files, unless you know what you are doing. I didn't.) The loss of work pissed me off that I decided not to continue with the frame by frame approach for animation.

So, I'm kind of stuck in limbo at the moment. I know what I want for art and animation, but I can't seem to translate it into flash... yet. I have been experimenting with other ideas over the last month which I may post later for constructive criticism if they pan out. No promises.

Till then, AA out.

This game is looking amazing! Take your time with it.. and try not to rush things XD And I definitely know the feeling of life keeping you busy.. damn college >_>

[Mr D]

HOLD THE FREAKING PHONE. What is this? New content and a ninja update and this is not on the page 1? Well it is time to change that.
Woho this project is back! Hells yea.

[Tovi]

My word! You're back with guns blazing I see! GOG those animations are awesome, and the sprites and, and, and, the background! It's all so perfect!
This is extremely promising and I most definitely approve of the things you have so far. One minor complaint which may become a problem for some of the players; num-keys does not exist neither are they supported by macs... I literally can't try any other animations than those bound to the arrow keys for these test-animations...

Other than that. Out of curiosity, are you planning on heading the same direction as before with a metroidy feeling to the game? I really liked the idea of mixing the two of them. If so I would like to refer to my previous post a bit up on this page, as I am too lazy to repeat myself and seeing as this is a completely new start.

Good job on awakening my attention even more than last time you uploaded a version of this game, I hope this one will make it even further! ;D

[Lucky777]

MR D
INTRODUCING THE:
DEVELOPER OF ANIMATIONS
DESTROYER OF STEALTH
DISCOVERER OF NINJAS

...Heh.

On the topic of the project itself, this new start looks interesting enough, but that running animation's tendency to jerk Krystal back and forth is odd for days.
Seems to work a LOT better when the screen is actually moving and following her, though ... although it's still odd.
A case of something that looks fantastically peculiar in a vacuum actually turning out to be pretty suitable when fully implemented? I don't know. ...MAYBE NOT.

[xeragoth]

can you changed the attack commands to other buttons im using a laptop i dont have the numbers

[Kurushimi]

Please, don't ever use the numpad for important things. Many people these days play on laptops (myself included) and this excludes all those people from playing. Well, not really - there's the fn button, but tell me this: would you want to play through a game while holding down a button when a simple change could remove that from being necessary at all?

Here's my suggestion: Instead of WASD and numpad, use arrow keys for movement and ASDF, ASZX, or any other combination of letters grouped together, for attacks.

[melontable]

I am thoroughly impressed by the animation quality, and the movement controls, both are fantastic.

[trunks2585]

AA, you sneaky Ninja bastard, lol. Glad to see you taking another shot at it.

[AnotherArrow]

For everyone crying about the Numpad key binds, fear not! Alternative keys have been implemented. Personal key binds will be implemented at a much later date.

Other than that. Out of curiosity, are you planning on heading the same direction as before with a metroidy feeling to the game? I really liked the idea of mixing the two of them. If so I would like to refer to my previous post a bit up on this page, as I am too lazy to repeat myself and seeing as this is a completely new start.

->

I must say that just by getting the reference you did there at the title, I realized that this game will have potential. If you want to continue making metroid references, the best way to start is by making the actual gameplay work like metroid. This means exploration and free-roaming, perhaps puzzle-solving to some degree. I have yet to see actual gameplay, but so far this seems really promising!

I honestly haven't decided... I'm building up the combat aspect of the game first.. which mixes a bit of everything. There will be exploration and free-roaming to a degree. Combat will be very different though (at least what I'm going to attempt). Metroid's story is intermixed with mine to a degree... you'll just have to wait and see.

On the topic of the project itself, this new start looks interesting enough, but that running animation's tendency to jerk Krystal back and forth is odd for days.
Seems to work a LOT better when the screen is actually moving and following her, though ... although it's still odd.
A case of something that looks fantastically peculiar in a vacuum actually turning out to be pretty suitable when fully implemented? I don't know. ...MAYBE NOT.

The running animation was modified between updates ( I saw the jerky motions too ). It should be slightly less jerky in the later versions, which is why it looks better in the side-scrolling versions.

[AnotherArrow]

Poll added cuz Valpas got me thinking...

Read the Poll information at the beginning of the thread for more information.

[Lucky777]

Please note, I'm using the poll to gauge how the community feels about each game type. But, just because one poll is winning, does not mean I'll use that model. A person with a good argument and idea will weigh more then the poll. Keep that in mind.

If you want to have a poll that doesn't actively determine the outcome to a question, this quoted approach is exemplary.
It is CERTAINLY best to let the voters know clearly, ahead of time, what you have in mind with respect to poll results.
Another fellow sought to run a similar poll on his blog and - perhaps not due to any fault in his courtesy, but due only to his imperfect grasp of the English language- he failed to clarify his intentions regarding the poll beforehand, and the absolutely unsatisfactory nature of THAT course of action is what leads me to single out your particular approach and congratulate you upon it.

As to the actual question you've asked, I'd like to see a sidescrolling platformer-type thing, but with the "combat depth" one would find in a fighting game.
So basically: "The same moveset you've given to Krystal up there, but with Krystal not limited to fighting 'one enemy at a time in some arena 2 screens wide and divorced from the rest of the stage/game'."

I'm... not sure if I should vote for "fighter" or for "side scroller" to get that effect, so I'mma just hang on to my vote for now.

[AnotherArrow]

As to the actual question you've asked, I'd like to see a sidescrolling platformer-type thing, but with the "combat depth" one would find in a fighting game.
So basically: "The same moveset you've given to Krystal up there, but with Krystal not limited to fighting 'one enemy at a time in some arena 2 screens wide and divorced from the rest of the stage/game'."

Um.. yes! I probably should have explained the fighter portion a bit better, but you phrased it well. The fighter combat aspect won't be limited to 1 vs 1 but 1 vs X... where its you vs X amount of enemies. Pressing Q or E would rotate focusing/targeting on an enemy (or maybe some other mechanic)... and you would press 1,2,3, or something to rotate between your fighters. I too want to create something with more "combat depth" then a side-scroller, which I why I came up with the idea of mixing the "fighter" with the "platormer action adventure", but it will take some serious testing to really make it work as I envision.

So, In essence, Option 3 "Fighter" is really an enhanced version of Option 2 "platormer action adventure".

As for the stage / level / arena... that will probably be another poll question I'll come up with based on which game play I've chosen... or maybe that should also factor into you choice as well...

With Option 2: Platformer Action Adventure (PAA) will be, by default, a single stage/level area. No need to worry about creating a special combat stage.

With Option 1: Turn Base RPG can go either way depending on how I approach it. I can do those fancy transition screen from the adventuring stage to a 1 screen combat stage... or I can just design the stage such that combat takes place right there. There are options here, but most likely I'll choose the former for ease (combat stage).

With Option 3: Fighter can go either way like with Option 1. I could have a combat stage / arena , or I could have players fight it out right there on the stage.

---

I should also note the following as it just crossed my mind.

As I have hinted at, one of my goals is bringing the other characters into the picture. Its easy to see how Option 1 (RPG) will implement this, but for both Option 2 and 3, there will have to be some swap in method.

Option 3 (Fighter) will definitely use something like Marvel vs Capcom's method. As one character's hp drops, you can swap in another to continue the fight, or swap to another character better suited for the fight. Here I feel each character has a chance to be of use.

Option 2 (PAA) is going to be a bit more difficult to implement. I'd have to think of how to make it such that each character can be of some use in a consistent and meaningful manner.

---

Continuing with something else in my thoughts just now....

Range Vs Melee.

Please take that into consideration with each option.

In Option 1 (RPG), this won't really matter... you attack, you defend, range or melee attacks aren't really going to factor in combat effectiveness. Just in appearances.

Option 2 (PPA) is a bit tricky again. Why use a melee character when your range characters will... well... probably be more effective and easier to use. Why wait to kill an enemy a yard away when you can blast him from 100 yards? This is one of the problems I keep thinking of when trying to balance the character swapping in Option 2.

Option 3 (Fighter) kind of has the same problem to Option 2. However, thanks to that "combat depth" we talked about earlier, all characters have access to melee attacks... and I'm pretty sure I could give a few mid-range attacks to their arsenal so they won't be completely useless (GADOKEN! )

---

Also, does anyone know if editing the first post will reset the poll? I'm going to upload some new content later in the week, but wanted to ask before I do.

[Chocolatnave]

Honestly, turn-based combat gets very, very repetitive, and sometimes frustrating, such as when it's the character against numerous enemies, you're constantly waiting for them to stop attacking you so you can get a shot in.

I think a side-scroller works well because not only does the player have to engage and get involved in the game, it adds in a sense of realism to the game, which a turn based combat system doesn't allow. A side-scroller also lets players use a small measure of skill while playing, instead of pressing a button every few seconds to advance.

Keep up the good work though, would love to see what this turns into when it's done

[Lucky777]

Hmm.
Well, I went ahead and voted for the 2D scrolling platformer, but one of the assumptions that went into that vote was this:
"At least the same number of moves will be available to the player as in the example in the first post." So like, weapon skill, strong attack, weak attack, that stuff.

Button-combo special attacks (hadoken!) MIGHT be cool, BUT trying to code those combos might be a hair-tearing invitation to madness, so I'm really not insisting on them.

Turn-based battles don't HAVE to be boring, and they don't HAVE to be devoid of challenge, AND they don't have to rely on boring grinding to overcome their challenge, either.
For example, some of the battles in Seyser Koze's "Elysium" DO have a certain freshness the first time you play them (due to new mechanics and new abilities), and they DO have a certain challenge to them (though the challenge is strategic, of course, and never based on reflexes), all while grinding is actually IMPOSSIBLE in the game.
Even so, in terms of personal preference, a simple turn-based battle system (as opposed to a TACTICAL turn-based one, which is not on the table here) just isn't my first choice at all.
Even if a tactical rpg system WERE on the table, I'd prefer an action-game type of setup.
Anyway, lookin' forward to seeing what you do with this game.


OH, ALSO, I think you definitely need to make the keys customizable, by the way.

The best action game in the world becomes a pain to play if the button layout is awkward, and what is "awkward" might vary from person to person.

[AnotherArrow]

Honestly, turn-based combat gets very, very repetitive, and sometimes frustrating, such as when it's the character against numerous enemies, you're constantly waiting for them to stop attacking you so you can get a shot in.

I found turn-based combat gets boring and repetitive when you feel no sense of progression and using the SAME attacks over and over. If I use RPG as my model, I'll probably borrow Xenogears combat system... for some reason, that system never gets old with me. Also, I would use a time base model for determining whose turn it is... so, instead of going 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4.... if say 2 was really really fast, it could go 1,2,3,4,2,1,3,2,4,2,1,3,4,2... and I would never set the game up such the player feels like he's waiting an eternity to move. (and definitely no random battles!)

Well, I went ahead and voted for the 2D scrolling platformer, but one of the assumptions that went into that vote was this:
"At least the same number of moves will be available to the player as in the example in the first post." So like, weapon skill, strong attack, weak attack, that stuff.
Button-combo special attacks (hadoken!) MIGHT be cool, BUT trying to code those combos might be a hair-tearing invitation to madness, so I'm really not insisting on them.

FYI, you can re-vote if you so choose.
But, no... you assumed wrong. The PAA will not have the same "combat depth" as the fighter. I'd would probably mimic Super Metroid or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night's combat style... in which the controls are much more simple... Super Metroid Controls and Castlevania: SotN
As for adding combo's... it actually easier to add then you think... If you notice in my demo's above the controller I have what I call a "sequencer" that records button presses. All I have to do is look for "down, right, button" and activate the animation for my HADOKEN!

I'll probably rewrite the poll information at a little later with more detail as to how I would approach each game type better. The more I read it, the more I feel I was a little too vague in my design mock-ups. There are pros and cons for each one, goals that I feel need to be met, and things I'm going to do that most probably won't consider the norm for that genre.

Also, read update #10 toward the bottom concerning key-binds

[Tovi]

The problem, as I see it, with all turn-based combat systems is that it creates a too big gap in the gameplay, it always feels just a little bit out of place and ruins the flow of the game. Whereas metroidvania style combat involves the players own coordination and maneuverability, thus letting the player enter the game on a hole different level of gameplay.

The reason for this is probably mostly to blame on the "random encounter-thing", that you just randomly "step" on a monster and gets swooshed away to an arena, whether that monster is invisible before the "stepping on it" or not makes no difference (or For this game I guess touching it). Especially if you are planning on making the rest of the gameplay platform-ish it would create a huge rift between the very agile platforming that can be made with the model at hand, and just standing there bashing your face against an equally stationary enemy once you need to fight.

The metroidvania-style combat on the other hand will mean dodging the attacks yourself, hitting the enemy yourself and with your own precision. This really makes no difference for long or short range, both can be made balanced with reflector attacks and counters and dodging and semi-ranged attacks.
The real difference is that when fighting an enemy in a metroidvania-game, you simply go close enough to attack, just as easy is it for you to take distance from said enemy. This is what makes the metroidvania-style combat always favorable for a platforming-based game.