The AI (All-Ideas) Thread

[trunks2585]

hmm, well we've got two votes for lines and one that i know of not for lines. Can't say much about this idea one way or the other till others give their feedback.

[Kalypso]

On the topic of dialogue lines that determine your outcome... hmmm... this would make your job a little more fun Trunks, eh?
It seems we would follow the trail of Mass Effect or Heavy Rain to that intensity--similarly to Fallout 3 and TESIV: Oblivion. I think determining your reaction to sex would be a difficult thing to do, but would ultimately create a better effect on the experience of the game. It seems a bit too extreme and drastic for a Flash game, though, but it could indefinitely be achieved. I think us devs had a discussion about something like this, but we never finalized it because it almost seems a little ludicrous due to the creative difficulties that spawn in creating a game so complex. Of course, this system could be applied similarly to a stat-counting system--depending on what you say and do, it changes your encounters and reactions to sex--simply as that.

I enjoy big replay values, I remember playing good H-Games, like the ones by Zone, about 10, maybe 15 times each (in the amount of time I've spent looking at those flashes over the years). I couldn't imagine why someone wouldn't want to play this game through twice, attempt to move on but come back for more later if we make it the be-all-make-all Flash H-Game.

Ultimately, this is Renara's decision (if it even gets put in) because of the difficulties you endure coding something this complex. Of course, it would be beyond awe-strikingly amazing, so yes, you've got my vote. I just don't want to slow down the progress of v0.3--but if it does become default and in there, the game will end up being a lot better than it was before--especially because we won't have "game overs," and it would basically take the spot of it. I'm only saying its iffy, and may or may not be difficult to do.

However, on the topic of dialogue boxes that say "SSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!", "SPLISH-SPLOSH!", "CHK-CHK-CHK-CHK!"... no. NO. NO. And its only because that's really stupid--and SFX off of the internet have more variety and better quality than that. We had thought of it before, but unless they're symbols in Japanese, I really would like to avoid them.

[Darek]

I'm on the fence with lines. I mean, if you go read a hentai manga and it doesn't have english translation it isn't as exciting to simply look at static images and it is to be able to read all the sexy stuff coming out of their mouths and get a better grasp of the erotic situation set-up.
Same applies to hentai anime. With no subtitles it is hardly as exciting as with subtitles.

Perhaps this would apply to an adult game as well, although if there were lines it would detract from the fact that Krystal can't speak English.

[DemonFiren]

Hm...then get her a translating device.

[Kalypso]

I'm on the fence with lines. I mean, if you go read a hentai manga and it doesn't have english translation it isn't as exciting to simply look at static images and it is to be able to read all the sexy stuff coming out of their mouths and get a better grasp of the erotic situation set-up.
Same applies to hentai anime. With no subtitles it is hardly as exciting as with subtitles.

Perhaps this would apply to an adult game as well, although if there were lines it would detract from the fact that Krystal can't speak English.

Well, that's not what we mean about lines. I'm on the fence with text-based sfx as well, that'd be a little absurd and a little too manga-ish.
What we're discussing is dialogue lines that change how Krystal interacts in sex, we're discussing Elgregou's idea, lol. That's what we mean by lines--changes by decision making.

[DemonFiren]

Good to read. Although I guess you won't get so many different paths cos of the filesize, hm?

[trunks2585]

(this post got a lot longer than i planned on)

heh, yeah since i'm pretty much the one in charge of dialog and stuff like that i'd have to make damn sure even her sluttiest lines are still 'in character'. If krystal's personality gets screwed up, guess who's gonna be taking the heat from all the flames about it? *raises hand*.

If we vote to do this I'll write up the dialog and offer the different options ranging from utterly repulsed to accepting, and i'll be making sure the other developers proof read my stuff and make sure that it all sounds plausible and not too far from what the real deal might say. This is to reasure you that even though i'm against it, i'll do it.

To dive a bit more into this 'in character' issue, i saw the krystal scene from bowser's castle mentioned. Personally I feel that was a good use of dialog, going from resisting to giving in, and once freed, saying she's sorry to fox while blowing him, I didn't have an issue with it. But my god when i looked at discussion boards about that scene in the game, there were some flame wars going on about how 'that's too out of character, she'd never be that slutty! krystal isn't a whore!' Right now krystal is placed in a helpless situation and is doing what she has to, it the player's interpitation of if she's being rapped, or if she's just submissive, or even enjoying it is up to them. That's one of the benefits of the silent hero, they are what you make out of them, but they still maintain their own personality and the player is aware of that personality so their imaginations stay intact, it's a balance between being rational and having fantasies.

the other thing is krystal had dialog in bowser's castle, but she wasn't the main character either, mario was, and he never said a word there either, he usually never does, Link is another silent hero and i only remember like one scene in all of the zelda games i've played, back on Ocarina of Time where link ever had a dialog box.

Dialog boxes and choices are great for customized characters that you are free to make into whatever you want them to be. When you have a cannon character, the choices are slim at best and not much difference between them.

Currently I feel krystal fits the role of the silent hero. when you play what we currently have do you feel like any of these dialog boxes would really fit into the structure of the game? that's the big question, would they feel out of place?

[Elgregou]

Happy to see that my idea provokes some reflexion.

And for Fx written like "Splosh, splosh, aah,...", it's definitely a NO for me. It's more exciting and not too hard to produce sound with a little MP3 file.

By the way, speaking of Bowser's castle, I only replay it especially for the Krystal scene because I like her mind progression, as she is reluctant in the beginning but turn out to be a sex craved slut at the end.
... So that's why I said. In Bowser's castle, the sex scene is, graphically, not very beautiful and surely not as polished as your work on Legend of Krystal. But, with the text, the vision I have on this scene changes completely, and that's why it earns my attention.


PS : By the way, sorry if my english is not perfect, but it is not my native language.

[DemonFiren]

Your English is fine. And I second that...the part where Krys gets to "express her remorse" is nicely done, though.

[Elgregou]

@Trunks ----> I've also seen these reactions for Bowser's Castle, but honestly it was for ONE scene in an entire game, and from fanboys for who Krystal MUST never change from the Starfox games. If you manage to make Krystal sloooowly become a sex craved slut during LOK, it would be more credible.

For my part, I think that it is neat to have a path where krystal stays the same as we know her, but also different paths where she changes or shows different emotions, from the dominative female to the completely "mad about cum" lady. At least, players have the choice. With one scenario, you will content only one public. With many scenarios... Well you got the idea. ^^

[trunks2585]

that could also be done with the 'multiple ending' path and doing certain actions to lead to different endings without needed the text box choices all over the place, it's likely we'll have a standard default ending you get first no matter what, and then let the players experiment to get other endings (think starfox assult, regardless of if it was a good game or not, or chrono trigger) but that's not for a long time. I feel dialog is better suited towards the other characters for now.

I can see how there wouldn't be much argument about it if you're given the choice of how she'll act, rather than she'll say whatever line no matter what.

So I go back to my closing argument in my previous post, and this is for everyone, not just elgregou. Do you feel these text box choices of her dialog and thoughts would really fit into this type of game?

[DemonFiren]

Yes. It gives Krys character, and if done cleverly it will double the fun.

[Elgregou]

To really answer your question : yes I feel that it would really fit in this game. Why ? Because if you change only the end, or even some sex actions without warning (just because the player missed some scenes, or chose to do this thing and not this one), it could let the player think : "uh ? why did I have this scene the other time and not this one ? Why Krystal become a slut now ? Only beacause I had one more sex scene ?"
You see, the point with having dialogs is that the player will really have the feeling to understand Krystal, and to understand what he is doing with her. He will have the impression to lead Krystal toward a goal he chose from the beginning (slut or no slut ? Dirty talking slave or shy one ? etc, .... ).
There are way too many games where the player has different endings, but doesn't know one bit how the hell he managed to get them.
And more, because the game is centered on Krystal's experimentations with slave's life, it is normal (at least for me) to show, other than by graphics, how she reacts to something that is, for her at the beginning, totally repulsive and out of what her character would do.

[DemonFiren]

Thanks for putting it into the proper words.

[Tsurugi no Kami]

I'm all for giving her some dialog, as well as putting in different paths that could be taken. However, I do understand that there are restrictions, and, as such, I can't expect everything to be done ideally. If the team can bring this idea to full fruition, then that would be great for everybody, but not a necessity.

One infinitesimally small thing I would like to suggest for the game is changing around the Table Fuck sequence. Personally, I think that, out of all the scenes currently released, that, as well as the Scales scene, probably should have had vaginal penetration. If you could either reposition the tit fucking Sharpclaw, or add a third one, making the scene similar to the Alien Fuck game that was made a long time ago (probably near the bottom of the funny-base adult games section), that would be great.

[Elgregou]

So, Trunks. What are you going to do ?

[Kalypso]

Alright, I'm coming out and saying it now, because its been absolutely ludicrous that we've not said anything publicly about this thread.

Its best that ideas like this don't get posted on the All-Ideas thread for further investigation, as it becomes a nuisance to respond to such ideas on a thread of this nature that replicates the exact ideological process of the forum that it itself resides in. Without a moderator to manage and/or archive its massive flourish of topical jumble, the thread becomes its own paradox, as its purpose was to "organize all the ideas into one thread, so they're not so scattered."
It becomes a hassle to read through each and every idea as a post instead of giving deep thought into each one as its own "separated" idea on its own thread. Right now, we only have 2 pages on the discussion thread. So how could it be this "mess" that it is come to be known for? If anything, this thread has discouraged posting on the discussion forum.

Elgregou, if you really want your idea to be reviewed and carefully dissected by not only Trunks, but the entire active LoK Team--I mean, really looked into and studied further, you'd post it on the discussion thread as its own topic. I suggest that to everyone else as well.

In your best interest, the AI ideas thread should be closed, when we get great ideas posted here they become lost and buried by following posts and new ideas that show up. The entire purpose of the 'discussion' forum is to generate ideas, not just this thread.

[trunks2585]

i have to agree with kal, your idea pretty much got dissregarded by the rest of the community. This thread served for brainstorming but not really investigating any ideas generated.

We've talked about it in the developers area. Don't get your hopes up for it, we havn't settled on anything. I think most of agree giving krystal some level of dialog would be nice, but i doubt it'll be to any large amount, and there won't be any 'fixed dialog' lines, again nothing is certain, just giving you some feedback on your idea.

[Renara]

I'm uncertain on closing this thread; I agree with Kalypso, especially regarding large or otherwise significant ideas. If all you want to do is post something short though then this isn't a bad place to do it if a more suitable thread doesn't exist.

[P373r]

I'd say dont lock it...

When a decent subject starts make it have a own topic and let them continue to give the subject in hand criticism in that topic...

This way we can have this forum as a brainfart topic for people who just came up with something and wanna check feedback