Legend of Krystal Forums

by **Suraru** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:27 pm

Talk about it.
When I get home, I'll copypasta my plagiarized rant from Skype.

by **IrrelevantComment** » Wed May 22, 2013 5:24 pm

A lot of the hate the XO is getting is misdirected. One example is the whole pre-owned thing, which a lot of people misunderstand. Currently, each game copy can only be played on one console at a time, namely the one with the disc in. The disc functions as a key to get the game to work. On the XO, each game copy can only be played on one console at a time, the one with the owning account on. The account is the key, and the disc is just a delivery system. This is no different from how digital delivery services like Steam already work. Want to buy pre-owned games/sell your games? MS are creating a system for doing that. Want to play your game round a friends house? You can, so long as you are signed in. The only thing it stops is game lending, which really isn't much of an issue.

So why do this? It means you don't need discs to play games. If your disc is lost, stolen or damaged it doesn't matter, you can still play the game. It's also helpful if you are too lazy to change discs like me. On the whole, I think this is a more elegant solution and I look forward to it. It's also EXACTLY how DLC works on the 360.

by **MiscChaos** » Wed May 22, 2013 6:47 pm

Deleted your second post because it was a repost of the first, IC.

Anyways, I'm one of the people who'd have a problem with the incapability to game lend. In my family, we don't all go out and buy the same game; we don't have that kind of money. So when one of us buys a new game, they'll beat it and then share it around with the rest of the family so we all get to enjoy it. The XO destroys that possibility since we'd always have to log in to one account if we wanted to play that game. It means that if my brother bought a game and I wanted to play it, I would either be assed out or he would have to find something else to do every time I wanted to play since, to my understanding, an account can only be logged in one console at a time. If that understanding is mistaken, please feel free to correct me. But either way, I'd have to give my account information to EVERYONE who I want to play the game. As security minded as I am, that's just not gonna fly. And it may be because I've been gaming since you had to blow in a cartridge if the game was acting funny, but I don't have a problem with getting up to change a disc and have no sympathy for those that do. It's right in front of you for pete's sake! And I'm VERY interested in this system MS is creating for pre-owned/selling games since that was another one of my hang-ups with the system. Another is how it's completely and utterly not backwards-compatible, meaning you can't get rid of your Xbox 360 if you want to play older games.

I have my problems with the PS4 too, of course, but it's much less severe. The system for Pre-owned games already in place still works, so no drama over that. I do have some problem over the limited amount of backwards-compatibility, what with you being unable to transfer your save files or the games themselves over, but they're already working on a cloud system to get around that. If I can just prove that I have the game and can access it on the cloud system to put on my PS4, I'll be happy as a clam. If I have to buy it again, THEN we've got a problem. It doesn't require you be online most of the time like the XOne is starting to promise. I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but looking over the pros and cons thus far, it's seeming like it's the better move (for me) to stick with Sony. I'm not very interested in the WiiU at the moment, so I haven't done any research for that.

by **Zeus Kabob** » Wed May 22, 2013 8:39 pm

About the WiiU: It's a console with a lot of potential, but game devs will need to take advantage of that potential for it to be a decent system.

Nintendoland, the release title, was a good demonstration of the WiiU's potential, but thus far I haven't seen any real groundbreaking titles on the WiiU. 5 player multiplayer can be carried out with very interesting dynamics, but I haven't seen it yet.

Game ownership on the WiiU: You have the disk, you play the disk. The old Mii system is still in place, and still isn't any better, but it's a system that allows some to make good avatars and me to make a stupid looking one that I thought would be nice.

The gamepad has a short battery life, but comes packed with features; it can act as a universal remote control, it has a full touchscreen, and has a camera per side. It allows for asynchronous play, something I really want to see in a coop game. All in all, the system has a ton of potential but it's entirely up to game developers to make it a good system.

by **IrrelevantComment** » Wed May 22, 2013 8:41 pm

Sorry, didn't mean to double post, the site's been pretty bad for me today with either not being able to connect or logging me out.

You're right that each account can only be one one xbox at a time, but you don't actually have to be signed into that account to access the content afaik, so you wouldn't have to give your information out.

The lack of backwards compatibility is annoying, but at the same time it's inevitable because they are changing the architecture and OS so much, and I would rather have those changes than still be able to play my old games. It might just be because personally, there's not much I would want to replay, and the stuff that I do I will keep my 360 for. Also most of my favourite 360 games I play mostly for the multiplayer, which will be dead when the One comes out.

Edit: the XO definitely has it's flaws, I'm not denying that, but none of them are deal breakers for me. I'm waiting for E3 and a price before I make up my mind.

by **Reaver** » Thu May 23, 2013 12:02 am

For the Xbox One the lending doesn't bother me a lot since I'm one of those guys that will save money to buy a game instead of just getting it from a friend. The backward compatibility does miff me but i'll probably keep and play on my Xbox 360 once in a while even with the Xbox One. (Hell I still have the original xbox) However Im not just going to buy the xbox for gaming. A lot of its features are moving towards the multimedia idea which means i can watch Game of Thrones or the Halo series (Look it up!). I haven't really looked up the PS4 since i'm not even considering it and as for the Wii U, I hear EA doesn't even want to make games for it.

by **Renara** » Thu May 23, 2013 6:47 pm

Personally I'm more interested in Valve's "Steam Box" and the possibility of PCs as consoles becoming a proper market. It's unlikely that buying a console sized PC will ever be cheaper than buying an XBox One or PS4 (isn't really a big enough market), but having total freedom in what you run would be worth it; I really got tired of not having access to mods, and the proprietary hard-drives and terrible battery charger for the 360 annoyed me as well. I think it's something that could really change consoles for the future, since companies could just offer their own "Steam Box" variations.

There's also the Ouya which seems interesting; it's more of an indie gaming platform based on Android, but the cost of the console + controller is what you'd pay for a brand new 360 or PS3 game so I might get one purely because it's so cheap!

by **Zeus Kabob** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:32 pm

Very interesting. I'd certainly be interested in PC becoming one of the "main consoles", as that'll drive developers to consider it more.

by **Suraru** » Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 am

Oh yeah, here's that rant I said I'd post.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

by **Renara** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:59 pm

Okay, my extra thoughts go a bit long, so I'll use a spoiler as well I think

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Suraru Wrote:The Xbox One WILL NOT be backwards compatible! That's pretty bad news. For those of you who don't know, you cannot play Xbox original, Xbox 360, or Xbox Live Arcade titles on the Xbox One.

I'm not sure that's really surprising; they've switched back to x86 from PowerPC, so the cost of emulating previous games would be way too high (especially since the One's processor is probably only around 1.6-2.0ghz per core, compared to 3.2ghz for the 360's CPU). There was a rumour that the One might get an add-on module that can play downloaded XBox 360 games, which could make sense to leverage all the downloads available on the XBox Live marketplace, for enticing new owners anyway since they could get a console with hundreds of available games that way. Probably too expensive to be worth it though, and no good for people that owned physical copies, unless it leveraged the One's Blu-Ray drive for loading from the disks.

Suraru Wrote:I can't say I'm a big fan of how the new Xbox looks. It just looks big and clunky, almost like a VHS player or something. I don't exactly like the new controller either. This won't have any affect on whether or not I buy the console though.

My first thought was that it looked like they came up with three different design ideas and picked them all. I don't mind going for a flatter, boxier case, but it has three distinct different surfaces types, and the inward slope at the bottom isn't really visible enough to actually function as much of a design feature. It seems like really they could have done one style on the top, and made that slope into a front grill for airflow to the rear of the console (for if the sides are blocked off). That said, I didn't like the original XBox design, the original 360 is okay but a bit impractical, and the slim I actually liked less (glossy black is a horrible surface as it looks awful when it gets even a little dirty). As you say though the appearance isn't that important; I didn't like the PS3 either, and we don't really know what the PS4 actually looks like, but I doubt we're going to be rushing out to buy a PS4 because of its looks.

Hardware-wise it sounds like the XBox One is less powerful than the PS4; there's a lot of talk about using "the cloud" for computing but that doesn't help if your network connection is slow (or high latency) or not connected at all, it also sounds like that'll be more for keeping the workload of the main box down, rather than exceeding what its hardware can actually do on its own. It's also limited in what you can use it for (things like decompressing textures would require too much bandwidth, physics are too critical to introduce delays into and so-on). Ignoring the cloud stuff that means the XBox One has the same RAM, but at half the speed, and also around 33% less raw graphics performance (measured by shader units), while you really need actual benchmarks to say for sure, that means the One is less powerful overall, but it also means the PS4 uses more expensive components so the One might be cheaper. That will depend mostly on Microsoft's pricing/features for XBox Live Gold though, as Gold is something that I hate about the 360 as £40 a year you hardly get anything for your money other than a sliver of cloud storage that you wouldn't need if you could just backup your XBox to a computer, and access to multiplayer for games you've already paid for on servers Microsoft doesn't run, so eh… they'd better be adding some value this time round, some bundled internet TV channels would be a start.
The hardware does seem in line with Microsoft's strategy though which seems to be to push features and exclusives, the latter of which was a big part of the 360's success (though the PS3's high price also helped a ton).
For me the main hardware issue is that hard-drive, they say 500gb which I don't see lasting long, especially since it's not clear if the operating system(s) will use some of that, plus you need to install all games before you play them, add in HD TV shows and movies and it's not actually a lot of space. Also, an HDD is clearly necessary, but it looks like it'll be a 2.5" drive, which means it won't be amazingly fast as 3.5" HDDs still have the best speed options, I was kind of hoping they'd include an SSD as a cache drive as the different it makes to load-times is huge, especially in games like Skyrim. The extra RAM will help as well, but it sounds like games will only really have access to about 5 or 6gb once you take into account the OS that runs in the background (for TV and other features) and say 1gb reserved for the GPU. Since the CPU is based on AMD's newer architecture there should be less duplication of resources between the RAM used by the CPU and GPU (currently most shared memory systems have a copy of textures in RAM, then one on the GPU's memory as well), but it's still not a lot of space for preloading content into as many high-end games now want 4gb or so.

It's a fairly interesting release, as of the two the PS4 seems like the more immediately game-focused console, but the XBox One has a lot of interesting features to compensate (and may be cheaper). I'm also not sold on the touch-screen added to the PS4 controllers as it seems like a novelty, while the extra rumble feedback on the XBox One's controller triggers should benefit more games by giving that extra precision feedback. The inclusion of the Kinect with the One might eliminate any price difference, but is another important feature that might entice more buyers, though I've not found the Kinect to be particularly good.

by **QuizmasterBos** » Fri May 24, 2013 9:08 pm

Now, I've already bought the Wii U and have no intentions of going multi-system, but I still want to say my thoughts on each system whilst replying to others. So, let's go.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

IrrelevantComment Wrote:A lot of the hate the XO is getting is misdirected. One example is the whole pre-owned thing, which a lot of people misunderstand. Currently, each game copy can only be played on one console at a time, namely the one with the disc in. The disc functions as a key to get the game to work. On the XO, each game copy can only be played on one console at a time, the one with the owning account on. The account is the key, and the disc is just a delivery system. This is no different from how digital delivery services like Steam already work. Want to buy pre-owned games/sell your games? MS are creating a system for doing that. Want to play your game round a friends house? You can, so long as you are signed in. The only thing it stops is game lending, which really isn't much of an issue.

So why do this? It means you don't need discs to play games. If your disc is lost, stolen or damaged it doesn't matter, you can still play the game. It's also helpful if you are too lazy to change discs like me. On the whole, I think this is a more elegant solution and I look forward to it. It's also EXACTLY how DLC works on the 360.

Not needing a disc to play games is a good thing. But the reason people are hating it, is because apparently, you cannot lend out games to a friend. Your friend needs to pay FULL price (or at least a fee) just to try the game out. That's not very consumer friendly.

MiscChaos Wrote:I have my problems with the PS4 too, of course, but it's much less severe. The system for Pre-owned games already in place still works, so no drama over that. I do have some problem over the limited amount of backwards-compatibility, what with you being unable to transfer your save files or the games themselves over, but they're already working on a cloud system to get around that. If I can just prove that I have the game and can access it on the cloud system to put on my PS4, I'll be happy as a clam. If I have to buy it again, THEN we've got a problem. It doesn't require you be online most of the time like the XOne is starting to promise. I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but looking over the pros and cons thus far, it's seeming like it's the better move (for me) to stick with Sony. I'm not very interested in the WiiU at the moment, so I haven't done any research for that.

No backwards compatibility for the PS4 isn't exactly going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people, but it is a major annoyance. I foresee Sony needing to get a Virtual Console section similar to Nintendo, if they wish to easily pull in consumers. The PS4 will be expensive, so to buy it you need to have quite a bit of money. If PS3 owners could sell their old system, buying it would be a lot easier. But now they can't, if they wish to continue playing PS3 (and even PS2 and PS1) games.

Zeus Kabob Wrote:About the WiiU: It's a console with a lot of potential, but game devs will need to take advantage of that potential for it to be a decent system.

Nintendoland, the release title, was a good demonstration of the WiiU's potential, but thus far I haven't seen any real groundbreaking titles on the WiiU. 5 player multiplayer can be carried out with very interesting dynamics, but I haven't seen it yet.

Game ownership on the WiiU: You have the disk, you play the disk. The old Mii system is still in place, and still isn't any better, but it's a system that allows some to make good avatars and me to make a stupid looking one that I thought would be nice.

The gamepad has a short battery life, but comes packed with features; it can act as a universal remote control, it has a full touchscreen, and has a camera per side. It allows for asynchronous play, something I really want to see in a coop game. All in all, the system has a ton of potential but it's entirely up to game developers to make it a good system.

A big thing you hear some people say is that Nintendo has won this generation already (setting the bomb and such). Now, I don't think that is true. What I DO think is true is that Nintendo has a chance of "winning". The Wii U isn't a bad system, it just doesn't have any games for it. Now, with the Xbox One reveal being very underwhelming, Nintendo can reel in developers (those slimes EA have already come back on their statement that "no games are in development for the Wii U").

But just looking at E3 we can see that Nintendo stands a good chance against Sony. Sony will be just starting, whilst a LOT of Wii U games are being released this year. Titles like Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Rayman Legends (not an exclusive anymore, but still), New Super Luigi U and even Assassin's Creed IV (also multi-platform) are sure to help boost Wii U's sales.

And what about the prospected trailers? Super Smash Bros., Retro Studios' new game, the new game by Monolith Soft, new 3D Mario, new Mario Kart. The list goes on.
As I said, Nintendo isn't sure to win, but they'll stand a good chance this year I think.

(Especially with the help of Microsoft. Shortly after the unveiling of the Xbox One, the Wii U shot up from #390 to #40 on Amazon UK's Sales Chart. That's an increase of 875%!)

Oh, and by the way, Zeus? If you want a good party game that uses the GamePad in an interesting manner, I suggest you look up Game and Wario, another title to be released later this year.

by **OwnerOfSuccuby** » Sat May 25, 2013 6:43 am

Do not worry. May be one day all the consoles will have the same games functional or some thing like that - so people can play with it in the game. For example some seporation on consoles - windows / game adapters and compact PC - like android/apple /windows phones and etc. with the same functionality or with the best programs we can need on each of them. What is the point to have 2 devices and play on both in the same time

But even in this case i hope it will be the time solution - because now internet and people who work with it needs more resources. I hope it will be time period - and than after this time all becomes better. If you remember in old consoles you need one cartridge to the console and they were different to each other. But after some time all becomes better so we have to try to make some thing that can make it true

May be it will be some bad thingth on our way may be not - may be we get luccky

I hope all will by fine. But we have to try to make it so - not just hope

by **IrrelevantComment** » Sat May 25, 2013 10:25 am

QuizmasterBos Wrote:A big thing you hear some people say is that Nintendo has won this generation already (setting the bomb and such). Now, I don't think that is true. What I DO think is true is that Nintendo has a chance of "winning".

Really? Most people think the U has failed as a console, with sales being way too low.

by **QuizmasterBos** » Sat May 25, 2013 10:58 am

IrrelevantComment Wrote:
QuizmasterBos Wrote:A big thing you hear some people say is that Nintendo has won this generation already (setting the bomb and such). Now, I don't think that is true. What I DO think is true is that Nintendo has a chance of "winning".

Really? Most people think the U has failed as a console, with sales being way too low.

That's because, as always, the negative news about Nintendo exceeds the positive. The Wii U cannot have failed as it is not even 6 months old, it just started. As I stated above, the system is going to get a LOT of games this year that are great games from the looks of it.

Of course, the system still sold less than prospected and it has already gotten an unofficial price cut in many stores, but that doesn't mean it'll fail.
Heck, the 3DS sold really badly at first as well, but has sold over 31 million units at this point.

If anything has 'failed' as a system at least, it would be the PS Vita (which I also don't really agree with, but I DO find it strange you never hear someone speak about that, whilst the 3DS got a lot of flak even though it instantly did better). That has sold barely over 5 million in over a year's time!
Can Sony turn that around? Of course, but that would mean putting a huge amount of money in the console, as well as a price cut. I think we can best wait for the outcome of E3 before we are going to make some assumptions.

So bottomline, do not say a console/handheld has 'failed' until at least say, two years have passed.

by **Suraru** » Sat May 25, 2013 6:07 pm

Found this on tumblr.

It’s probably called xbox one because it’s taken 359 steps back.

by **IrrelevantComment** » Sat May 25, 2013 8:52 pm

Most of that was bs tbh. He has no right to ask someone not to buy a console, I can buy whatever the fuck I want and it's none of his damn business. And all the stuff about Kinect always watching you is scaremongering. You could make the same argument about laptops with wbcams installed (that is, all of them).

by **Mr D** » Sat May 25, 2013 9:19 pm

IrrelevantComment Wrote:Most of that was bs tbh. He has no right to ask someone not to buy a console, I can buy whatever the fuck I want and it's none of his damn business. And all the stuff about Kinect always watching you is scaremongering. You could make the same argument about laptops with wbcams installed (that is, all of them).

Actually he has all the rights to "ask" people not to buy it, you know freedom of speech and all that. It is not like he is "ordering" it he is just asking which is more of an advice. Also if the laptop is turned of the camera does not work but that will not apply for the kinect because it will scan for you "always". Also nobody really cares that much about the kinect and it is not the main issue. It is ok if you want your console to be for TV but gamers do not. Most want their consoles to be about games which is something microsoft is stepping on and sony is started to focus on. A company will not give a crap about their mistreatment of others unless it is shown on their money income. And the only way for that to happen is when you do not buy their products. Of course you can buy it, it is your money after all, but the more pressing thing is not if you can but if you should.

by **QuizmasterBos** » Sat May 25, 2013 11:30 pm

IrrelevantComment Wrote:Most of that was bs tbh. He has no right to ask someone not to buy a console, I can buy whatever the fuck I want and it's none of his damn business. And all the stuff about Kinect always watching you is scaremongering. You could make the same argument about laptops with wbcams installed (that is, all of them).

I find calling bs on something clearly grounded (he has a source for everything he said, the rest was advice) a bit much. The Xbox One hasn't profiled itself well at ALL this past week. If all this stuff that is said to be still worked on would come true, I think it would be a pretty safe assumption that this would be the worst made console of all time.

I feel Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to pull these kinds of stunts on us. Taking far more money than necessary (account, second-hand game and movie watching even), keeping an eye on you and building a console on a concept of tv and NOT games, is something absolutely ridiculous.

I still have this feeling that this is all just a major troll move from Microsoft. That next E3 Microsoft will be: "Ah, got you there, didn't we. Here's the Xbox 720 you wanted."
If this happens, I called it.

Also, I stand behind what Mr. D said.

by **BlueLight** » Sun May 26, 2013 12:51 am

by **Chameleon** » Mon May 27, 2013 4:57 pm

Lmao

Yeahh, I don't fuck with consoles anymore. Couldn't be happier as a PC gamer (Steam <3)

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