Strive for Power - Fantasy Slave Management game

[Lucky777]

I haven't looked at the newest version yet (probably will today) but yoooo... in version 0.5.0.2:

1) transparent Ink tatoos still show up in the description, and

2) at 4/2 magic affinity (boosted over max by tattoos) slaves still can't learn acid spit.

3) The calculations in the "next bonus" and "Current bonus" fields appear to be completely wrong, and/or not to take into account magic bonus gained from levelling.

4) Also the slaver doesn't get the right number of attribute points when he levels from advancing in the Main Questline: he gets only 1 from those advancements.

5) Pretty certain that sometimes a slave wins a fight with more than 1/3 of her health left (CLEARLY not in the red) and still doesn't gain courage.

I've finally got a pretty much 100% lock on Wimborn starts, though... and I may not bother to look into the harder starting areas.
It'd be better to be able to join in hunting and foraging yourself, but even if you can't, you just get 1 slave's wits up to 65 and send them to forage.
(For my own roleplay reasons I never send them to forage without at least leather armour and a knife, but a sustainable condition is still attainable quite reliably.)
Then you get 'em to work in the market when the food situation isn't tight, until you have enough to buy an elf and unlock the brothel option, and you're golden.
If you make sure to put at least 1 point into endurance and 1 into agility to start with, you'll probably live through any fights needed to raise the slave's courage, too.

Now I'mma get that new version I think : D

I'm looking forward to seeing how this new exploration thing goes.

[maverickk]

1) transparent Ink tatoos still show up in the description

Certainly shouldn't be the case but you might need to reload inspect page after applying invisible ink.

at 4/2 magic affinity (boosted over max by tattoos) slaves still can't learn acid spit.
4) Also the slaver doesn't get the right number of attribute points when he levels from advancing in the Main Questline: he gets only 1 from those advancements.

Will fix it, thank you.

3) The calculations in the "next bonus" and "Current bonus" fields appear to be completely wrong, and/or not to take into account magic bonus gained from levelling.

Not sure what you mean, there have been some issues in older versions, but there's no 'magic bonus gained from leveling' which affects tattoos in any way.

5) Pretty certain that sometimes a slave wins a fight with more than 1/3 of her health left (CLEARLY not in the red) and still doesn't gain courage.

Code for courage growth after win is:

Code: Select All Code

if slave.health > slave.stats.health_max/1.3:
slave.cour += rand_range(1,3)

So for 100 health slave they must have at least 100/1.3 = over ~77 health. Assuming thier maximum courage allows it.

[Lucky777]

...Oh they need to be REAL fucking healthy to gain courage.
Like more than 75% health.
I ... did NOT know this.

Also, as to the bonus earned from levelling, I meant "Slave has 2 magic affinity from levels. Tattoos say their current status is +1 to magic. Slave still only has 2."

-----------------

Anyway, so I tried out the new exploration feature.
Haven't finished with the updated game as yet.
I definitely like the way the areas are connected now and they can be accessed by walking to the end of the preceding area!
...But a couple things jump out immediately.
: o

1) Most importantly, the option to cast heal, invigorate, and sedate between battles is missing. That won't do.

2) Isn't there an option to return the way you came instead of continuing to explore?
Currently you have to go to the end of the area before having the option to leave, if you go as much as ONE "Screen" in.
That doesn't make sense, and it'll be more than a mere annoyance if your awareness is too low to dodge encounters.

3) The teleport items don't seem to work on you and your party; you can't teleport back to the mansion with them.
There's no "Wimborn" teleport stone you could use as an alternative, in Wimborn's market.
Not being able to get back to the mansion without walking is annoying and inconvenient.
Again, it can go beyond inconvenience if your required stats are too low.
It can become fatal if your agility and wits and hearing (or whatever makes up awareness) are too low to dodge encounters.

4) When you capture a bandit from the bully encounter, the individual they were going to illicitly sell... becomes a "bandit".

5) When you capture a bandit from the bully encounter (or otherwise), you don't get the reputation boost anymore.

6) HOW heavy are those ropes? "3 ropes lol" take up the FULL inventory weight of a 1 str person. That can't be right : O

7) Quest log should specify "eerie grove to be found from Shaliq village" or something, for ease of use, I guess.
At least after talking to the Slavers' guild fairy, if not before.
I didn't read Melinda's text properly, to see if SHE specified that, but the quest log should be able to help inattentive duders.

8) Yooooo, sometimes a freshly captured slave is worth less than the rope used to capture her.
You can't even take back the rope to re-use after the slave is sold.
That is seriously fucking unfortunate.

9) If the required essences for a level up aren't in your mansion inventory, but ARE in your travel inventory, the game doesn't notice.
As in, it says you "don't have the required items in your possession".
I wasn't perplexed for long, since I realised "well, the 'travel inventory' system is new, so there may be some jank" but there you go.

10) ... And I mean ... a map would STILL be cool.
Because you STILL have to know what areas are connected to what other areas and what areas don't lead anywhere.
In that way this still sort of requires the same thing as the previous public version; the only good thing is the fact that now you can WALK to the other towns.

I haven't messed around with deeper areas much.
Nice to be able to divide the encounters by difficulty and quailty of captures, I guess, though it's a little weird to think of "deeper outskirts of a town"?
Eh.
Gotta avoid players being able to confuse themselves with things like the "Deep elven grove", too.
Clarity's very important.

Anyway, the new character art is pretty nice to have. : D

[maverickk]

1) Most importantly, the option to cast heal, invigorate, and sedate between battles is missing. That won't do.

Click on the bottom panel characters to access those.

Isn't there an option to return the way you came instead of continuing to explore?

I feel the current way is good enough. You get an option to return if you got there accidentally, but otherwise, please finish the journey.

The teleport items don't seem to work on you and your party; you can't teleport back to the mansion with them.
There's no "Wimborn" teleport stone you could use as an alternative, in Wimborn's market.

Two options:
1. Teleportation seals
2. Walk into another town and use 'teleport to mansion' option in details menu. It's a bit clumsy, but currently it is like that.

When you capture a bandit from the bully encounter, the individual they were going to illicitly sell... becomes a "bandit".

Its only a visual error, will be fixed next patch.

6) HOW heavy are those ropes? "3 ropes lol" take up the FULL inventory weight of a 1 str person. That can't be right : O

It's more of a balance thing. I might make ropes reclaimable but they would cost hell ton more. Don't really want players bring 10+ slaves from simple skirmish.

9) If the required essences for a level up aren't in your mansion inventory, but ARE in your travel inventory, the game doesn't notice.

Well, yep. What's in the backpack is not in your mansion's inventory. Checking both would be pretty inconvenient.

10) ... And I mean ... a map would STILL be cool.
Because you STILL have to know what areas are connected to what other areas and what areas don't lead anywhere.
In that way this still sort of requires the same thing as the previous public version; the only good thing is the fact that now you can WALK to the other towns.

Again, two things:
1. map needs to be drawn/coded and its a bit low on the priority list right now.
2. there's not THAT many areas to really make map a must thing. I believe you should be able to remember what goes where relatively quickly
But yeah, eventually there will be a map (we hope).

[Lucky777]

As to the clicking on party members to use heal etc, and teleportation seals: "OOPS."
Hahahaha
I didn't notice.
Well, when things get fully settled, I'm sure there'll be tutorials etc. to take care of that.
These are the tribulations that come with the privilege of being able to play a game early; so be it.

The teleportation thing also HELPS with being unable to turn back once you've set out, though I don't think it fully cures it.

What WILL probably cure it is "not going into the wild until you're fully steroid-ed up and genetically and magically modified", I guess.

The fact that there'll eventually be a map is good, I'm glad to hear.
A "text" map is fine too, just like a cat, though, if drawing ever becomes too much of a problem for any reason.
Wimborn outskirts - Shaliq - Eerie woods ... kind of thing.

Glad to hear the "becoming a bandit" is a visual bug that will be fixed, but what about the reputation gains?


As to "game balance", I mean, if I beat 10 + guys, I don't see that I should be unable to bring them back.

Of course, as I always say, the game-maker's decision is what goes, so if players don't like it, that's just too bad for the players.
One can't forget where the power lies, and I'm not trying to challenge that.
However, for my part, I say this clearly: immersively speaking, rope/chains aren't super expensive, and they're not super heavy; fuck artificial limitations.
Breaking immersion for my convenience, or for the sake of sexiness? ..... Hell, I'm probably in favour of it.
Breaking it to make things more troublesome for me? Probably Not in favour.
(Though I mean, for whatever it's worth, thick chains ARE probably gonna be heavier than rope.
More expensive too.)

(And if you're dragging back 10 slaves at once, I could see them being harder to control, sure, or attracting more attention... but that's its own little thing.)

Welp, still haven't re-finished the main plot, for this one (or even walked to Gorn etc yet) so ... GUESS I BETTER GET ON THAT : D

[musical74]

Some of this is probably my rushing to explore and getting crushed as a result, but is this a long game (like 300+ in-game days)? Asking because trying to explore the area in the first week is essentially suicide. I start off with 500 gold (farmer perk) and there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase it early on. The "easy quests" for the slave guild don't really seem that easy (at first) and since I'm unsure on obedience level and loyalty level, how do I determine whether someone has the required obedience? Oh, and the brothel mistress wants a elfmaid, can it be any elf race - would a dark elf work?

If it's a long drawn out game it explains why I'm finding it so hard - I'm rushing too much! Two bandits tend to crush me, lone encounters are OK, but if I hunt someone who is local, will the city think less of me, making it harder to conduct business?

*EDIT* Why does sometimes Emily's sister show up to demand her return and sometimes not?

[maverickk]

Glad to hear the "becoming a bandit" is a visual bug that will be fixed, but what about the reputation gains?

Already planned to be fixed in next patch.

As to "game balance", I mean, if I beat 10 + guys, I don't see that I should be unable to bring them back.

This would be too easy as you could get a ton of gold from easily selling captured people (remember how previously you either had to keep jail cells available or send back your party to quicksell captives). Chains are actually pretty heavy and consider that you'd have to carry enough ropes without any sort of support (bags coming in next version), while also carry weapons and armor (which do not have any impact on weight though).

Also, nobody holds you back from going into items.gd and setting ropes weight to 0.

The "easy quests" for the slave guild don't really seem that easy (at first) and since I'm unsure on obedience level and loyalty level, how do I determine whether someone has the required obedience?

You will be able to tell if slave's stats are sufficient for quest if attempt to turn them in.

Oh, and the brothel mistress wants a elfmaid, can it be any elf race - would a dark elf work?

Any elf would do.

Some of this is probably my rushing to explore and getting crushed as a result, but is this a long game (like 300+ in-game days)?

I'd say its fairly easy once you figure it out. Make sure your levelup your stats, purchase gear and preferably take more people with you.

if I hunt someone who is local, will the city think less of me, making it harder to conduct business?

It will impose some difficulties (like higher prices), yes.

[Lucky777]

Hahaha, I've died enough times that I can play mentor, though it would actually by like ... my ghost 20 times over, in-universe.
As of right now there appears to be no upper time-limit, and that is very good, because exploring early on is indeed swift and painful suicide.
It's been so since the last public edition, and this public edition is just even more so, with the inability to "run back home" if you get bopped on the nose.

You'll not have an easy time increasing gold until you unlock prostitution, and I believe (though I cannot confirm) that you'll need an ELF elf, no other kind.
EDIT: Well, from the words of the man himself, any elf will do.
I'll probably check later and find out if that even includes Drow.

Grind your first servant's wits, and have them hunt or forage; ensure you have armour and a weapon for them if you need to raise their courage.
Working at the market is how they make a pittance of gold early on.
If you balance it well with foraging/hunting, it works well enough.

Obedience can be checked with the mind-read spell, but if you don't have that, sufficient obedience is, I believe, "Enough to make them join you in adventuring".
Speaking of which, you want that.
Like, a lot.
Playing solo in this game is for when you get much more badass; in the beginning, carry at least one armed and armoured slave.
You probably want to level them in noncombat ways too, and just hope you don't get any impracticable level requirements.
Naturally, walk armed and armoured yourself (and ensure you have at least one point in endurance).
Without hella levels you're not All Might or Superman, and you'll soon be a corpse if you think your skin can stand up against swords or the teeth of wolves.

There's only so often you can have a "blind" experience of a game, and that time's passed for me, so ensure you tell Maverickk how hard his game kicks newbies' ass.

Also, whether Emily is branded or not, and her loyalty to you, both seem to affect the outcome of her sister's showing up.

I kinda don't give a fuck about Tisha so I tend to shrug and ignore her after branding Emily/spiking her drink and fucking her loyal, but that's me.



Lemme just put my money where my mouth is and include that text map I was talking about:

Just for starters, you're going to care about the 3 main settlements, being Wimborn, Frostford, and Gorn.

Wimborn - Wimborn Outskirts - Prairies - Gorn Outskirts - Gorn

Wimborn - Wimborn Outskirts - Ancient Forest - Shaliq village - Eerie grove/(Far Eerie Woods)- Marsh - Frostford Outskirts - Frostford

Then things'll get a little more interesting:

Wimborn Outskirts - Ancient Forest - Deep elven grove - [Eventually but not immediately leads on to Amberguard, Amber Road, and a Lone Hut, and a Cliff entrance. Some indication in-game that something will be here would be good. Main Quest will open these up to you. Actual spoilers below as to what lies beyond the cliff entrance]

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Dem ancient Ruins with Main Quest Documents, plate armour, cave wyverns, and a fucking Golem lol

And best of all:

Frostford Outskirts - [EVENTUALLY A PLACE]

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

It's a clearing. I'm not even putting what you meet here in these spoilers. Play the main quest : D

...And yeah some areas I'm not sure about.

Gorn Outskirts - Mountains - [Not sure what's here.]

Wimborn Outskirts - Prairies - Sea - [I dunno lol, maybe dead end?]

It'd be neat to interconnect all the areas in a little representation of what branches out from where, but hey, a simple linear explanation is better than nothing.

EDIT: Oh, hey, Maverickk, you need 3 supplies to camp, but camping only takes up 2 of them. Little odd.

- Also, it might be good to also specify that it's a flat cost of 3 supplies to camp regardless of party size, and then an additional 5 food per party member; at first I thought it was 3 supplies and 5 food per party member, and I wandered out like ... four times as burdened with supplies as I'd need to be for any trip, considering that you can only rest once per day anyway.

- Additionally, that elf girl seems to show up way, way, WAY too many times in one day, especially if you don't punish her.
I think I met her 4 times in one outing.
If I hadn't been kitted out and full of abilities etc she'd have finished me for sure.

- When you heal yourself outside of the house, you get amusing text about you being surprised at your good treatment, so you grow a little closer to yourself.

- You probably shouldn't be able to shift your Gorn and Frostford teleport stones from your home inventory into your backpack.
They don't have any weight so it's not like you're fucking yourself over, but still.
I think it's unintended (though it might be kinda cool for them to have weight and to constitute a way to teleport to those towns for free.
Even if you started in Wimborn, you'd then have a use for a wimborn stone as well.
It's fine if they have to be used in specific magical machinery which you only have available at your house or something, though.)

- So this is one of those things I didn't check to see if it was an accident or not ... I never bought an Amberguard teleport stone, but it opened up in my portals list.
Convenient, yes.
Intentional? I dunno, cause I didn't closely read any text.

Actual spoiler

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

- If your reputation with Frostford is already positive when you get the chance to fire Theron, you have to raise it AGAIN before you get noticed by the girl.
It's still not "great" though.
So maybe you have to raise it to some unspecified higher stage of "positive"?

- Is the mutant's awareness check right? It still jumps me even if I'm maxed out.

- There's no "back out" option when you go into the underground hall, you can only search for valuables. Actual spoiler follows about why that's bad.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Misclicks are serious if you don't have teleport seals; you could end up accidentally fighting another golem or dragon.

Hmm. Having completed it again, I recall one thing I've been forgetting to say for this whole time:
It's really damned helpful that you can just open the file that saves are saved in, to back saves up.
More games should let you do that; you don't even have to go hunting through the directories to find it.

Probably gonna fiddle with some more tattoos and look at some specialisations, as well as look at the races' racial bonuses and whatnot.

Apart from that I think I'm finally done with the game until the next public update; THIS many hours of enjoyment for free, seems like a pretty good deal to me.

... I don't guarantee I'm EVER going to fuck around with the harder starting cities, though.

Jesus FUCK that seems like it'd be a bad time.
Like, in Frostford you can't even buy food.
And I have to IMAGINE there'd be penalties to forage and hunt, since the canon is all about them not being in a self-sustainable state.
...Gorn I might mess with at some point.
MAYBE sometime.



(Oh right, it might be cool if we could get tattoos and the equivalent of specialisations, too.
Although... I think the extra 2 points we get to assign function as the equivalent of tattoos or even MORE than tattoos, in terms of bonuses to stats.
I leave 'em unassigned and just play as a standard human ... except that I do add some magic so I have 4 instead of the standard human 2.)

[musical74]

Before I forget, there's a bunch of errors and warnings (and a ton of script errors) that's listed in the "what happens when" box. It doesn't seem to really affect anything at all in terms of gameplay, but I'm wondering if this is a concern or is it one of those "it's not broke, don't fix it" type of things.

Regarding the sedation on the gnome you find while searching: I had the spell but it was grayed out, meaning I couldn't use it. Think Mana was 10 at the moment, does that mean I need more than 10 to use it on the gnome? Or do I need to use it on others first to get it to a high enough level to be able to use it on unsuspecting gnome?

[maverickk]

Before I forget, there's a bunch of errors and warnings (and a ton of script errors) that's listed in the "what happens when" box. It doesn't seem to really affect anything at all in terms of gameplay, but I'm wondering if this is a concern or is it one of those "it's not broke, don't fix it" type of things.

Regarding the sedation on the gnome you find while searching: I had the spell but it was grayed out, meaning I couldn't use it. Think Mana was 10 at the moment, does that mean I need more than 10 to use it on the gnome? Or do I need to use it on others first to get it to a high enough level to be able to use it on unsuspecting gnome?

There shouldn't be any errors, the engine might have tripped over something for you though.

Make sure you also learned the spell. Otherwise, with mana and spell learned the option should be usable.

[Lucky777]

Oh, yeah, the little box throws up a set of errors for me too, but as it doesn't affect gameplay at all, I didn't even care enough to mention it.

You get some when you save, and they tend to show up a lot in combat, like if you click on a skill and then on the "abilities" tab, and when you quit the game.

Piriform Ltd's free program "Speccy" tells me I'm running Windows 8.1 64 bit, and I have the 64 bit version of the game, if it means anything.

[maverickk]

Well, without seeing actual errors there's nothing I can say really.

[Lucky777]

Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a problem.

On the bright side, next post or 2 should remove the "Newly registered" tag and your posting delay : D

I mean I'm pretty sure you're not a bot, and if you are then you're the most advanced AI known to man and an asset to any forum, but still, rulez is rulez.

[musical74]

Error when it starts up: RasterizerGLES2::canvas_light_shadow_buffer_create: Condition ' status ?=Ox8CD5 ' is true. returned: RID<>

Not sure what it mean, because the game runs fine after this error. Same is true for the script errors when I'm fighting something, it says there's an error but then continues on.

EDIT: When a servant complains about quality of life, what exactly are they looking to improve? Furnishings? Their own room? I'm not exactly sure what they are looking for and therefore unsure on how to fix it - and since I don't know how to fix it, their obedience falls like a rock...

I do wonder after Emily convinces her sister to stay put, does Trisha ever show up again?

[maverickk]

Error when it starts up: RasterizerGLES2::canvas_light_shadow_buffer_create: Condition ' status ?=Ox8CD5 ' is true. returned: RID<>

Not sure what it mean, because the game runs fine after this error. Same is true for the script errors when I'm fighting something, it says there's an error but then continues on.

Looks like a GPU errors. Nothing I can help with.

EDIT: When a servant complains about quality of life, what exactly are they looking to improve? Furnishings? Their own room? I'm not exactly sure what they are looking for and therefore unsure on how to fix it - and since I don't know how to fix it, their obedience falls like a rock...

Anything what improves luxury will make them happy. Rules, better room, some gear.

I do wonder after Emily convinces her sister to stay put, does Trisha ever show up again?

No, you have to let Emily go to continue on their quest.

[Lucky777]

I wasn't going to bother as they don't affect anything, but I said to myself "Lucky, if Musical can make the effort to write this shit down, then you can too."

Mine are:


In saving sometimes:

ERROR: Disconnecting nonexistent signal 'pressed', slot: 1450:savefile
At: Core\object.cpp:1426
(When the window shows up saying the file exists already and confirming whether to actually overwrite. Regardless,it saves fine.)

***
And in battle, for example when you click an ability and then without using it or selecting a target, open the "abilities" tab, eg to get some other abilities to show up because they default to "not showing up", then close the abilities tab:

SCRIPT ERROR: _process: Invalid get index 'action' <on base: 'nil'>.
At: res://files/scripts/combat.gd:265

That one repeats forever, and very swiftly, until you click on a valid target character again, at which point the moves show up again and the error stops.
Gameplay is actually kind of affected in that while the error is ongoing, the bar to quickly access your abilities is invisible.
Again, gameplay continues unhindered after you click on a valid target character.

***

There's an error when closing the game, too, but there's no way in hell I'm fast enough to actually tell you what it says.
I mean, the game CLOSES fine, and RE-OPENS fine, and PLAYS fine, so like the other two, it's not really a problem.
But it's there.

***
EDIT: Also got this in combat:

ERROR: HashMap<class Variant,Class Variant,Struct _DictionaryVariantHash,3,8>: :next: Condition ' !e ' is true. returned: 0
AT: c\projects\godot-builds\godot\core\hash_map.h:507

Dunno why.
This happened at the end of combat after some bandits had escaped from a medium sized group or something.
It repeated about 4 times, and as usual, affects nothing besides the little error-reporting box.

***

When I click off the game-window there are often audio underflow errors, but I assume that's more to do with my computer's processing power.
The sound stutters when I get that one.
Here it is just for completeness:

WARNING: AudioDriverRtAudio : :callback: RtAudio output underflow!
At: Drivers\rtaudio\audio_driver_rtaudio.cpp:57

***

[maverickk]

I'll look into battle error, I dont think I can do much about rest. Btw you could just screenshot the logs.

[Lucky777]

...Yes, that's a good idea; I'll do it if I run into any logged errors worth reporting in the future.

EDIT:

In the deeper areas, a "pair" of thugs is 3; gonna want that to be a trio.

EDIT 2: I have childlike appearances turned off, and I came across $race $child in Wimborn outskirts. Not sure if it was a deeper area or not.

Also, magic affinity doesn't appear to affect the damage in Leeching strike, so unless it affects the HEALING, it looks like it affects nothing at all?

[musical74]

Something I've noticed that doesn't totally make sense is the Alise's (the gal that talks about how things work) encouragement/complaining about the gold - and only the gold, she doesn't seem to give a rip about if food is way down. I had someone cooking and she went to purchase food, but I still had over 1000 gold. Alise's complained that "the lack of gold must be addressed". If I were at 60 gold I could see that, but if I'm over 1000, why is she whining about a 20 gold decrease?

Something else I've noticed is the game assumes you are going to be getting a ton of servants. I just have three at the moment and I'm finding it pretty darn challenging!. The woman you start with, Emily, and a centaur babe. I get rid of the others, and it's pretty darn tough! On the plus side, that makes it fun! Oh yeah, One of the gals I had kept complaining about living conditions, even though I was doing things to remedy that. I eventually got sick of it and sold her. Will some complain unless a specific piece is deal with? I'm GUESSING she wanted a personal room, because the other stuff I did wasn't working...

[Lucky777]

Hey, time to play mentor again, subject to correction by someone who actually knows about the game!

I'm assuming the complainer was either rich or noble.
They need progressively more luxury than commoners and poor.
I haven't worked out the minimum that will satisfy rich or noble yet, but what you can do is just save yourself the hassle and bust them back down a few ranks.

Commoner is fine with nice panties and a personal room at 0 mansion upgrade status; add more gear (like a ring) and other rules (like extra food) for later ranks.
(At least I THINK I was at 0 mansion upgrade status.
If it doesn't work for commoners it'll SURELY work for "poor", but you want commoner status for all the jobs to be unlocked, I think.)
Now, mindread and some quests talk about the slave's "ORIGINS" but that's not right, since obviously you can never change a person's "origin".
It's more their current mindset than anything else, really.

I just had Alise shut the fuck up after like the first 10 times she appeared, myself.

... After you have prostitution unlocked and a suitable girl, there should really be no more "challenge" in just SURVIVING, though.
What...
... What did you do?
Three servants is quite enough, and I play the game through with them.
I go ahead and get more later on, after we've done all the levelling and laboratory upgrading and Main Questing that there is to be had.