Legend of Krystal Forums

Hello! I'm Waterdrop and I'm currently working on Zero no Academy, an adult parody of The Familiar of Zero.

The current version may be found in my blog: https://waterdropstudios.blogspot.com/

The full version should have routes for most of the main characters and if possible only original CGs.

Please note that the current build is full of "lend" CGs, the purpose of the Patreon is to hire artists to draw the CGs so the full release doesn't have any "borrowed" art.

This, the next, the last and any future game I make will be free for all so please don't hesitate on pointing out mistakes and/or giving suggestions!

I hope you like it.

Have fun and please don't hesitate on pointing out mistakes or giving suggestions!

I personally ain't going to say much but I'm not sure if what you are doing is really legal. No consequence of mine though, gonna try the game when i get back.

brontanius Wrote:I personally ain't going to say much but I'm not sure if what you are doing is really legal. No consequence of mine though, gonna try the game when i get back.

I like the game so far, but I'm afraid I'll have to agree with him. my recommendation would be to take out all the "lend" pictures ASAP, since you're now making (or at least trying to make) money off of this, and it would therefore probably constitute as theft or somesuch thing.

That being said, I'm no legal expert, so take that as you will.

The game is a lot of fun and surprisingly complete (as in everything works, there are just sections you can't access yet)
It does need more content, but for a V0.2 its fairly good.
I do think it needs a calendar system or something that tells you if you missed a scene, but thats just nit picking.
Lastly, the game is a bit of a grind atm, but once more content is added that should change.

suggestions:
Above calendar and %complete system
more rooms. ie a place to eat, being able to go outside (walks maybe?), the elemental towers?(visiting the teachers for lessons?), the capital city (Jessica and the queen),
Being able to see what spells we have.
a shop, (buying herbs to stop pregnancy? Potions? enchantment?)
random encounters
fights/training outside (ork hunting for gold+practice?)
Quests

Everything else is just completing the game, ie more spying options. So i'll stop here.
its got a ton of potential though

One of my favorite anime series so i'll watch very closely

snakevenom386 Wrote:

brontanius Wrote:I personally ain't going to say much but I'm not sure if what you are doing is really legal. No consequence of mine though, gonna try the game when i get back.

I like the game so far, but I'm afraid I'll have to agree with him. my recommendation would be to take out all the "lend" pictures ASAP, since you're now making (or at least trying to make) money off of this, and it would therefore probably constitute as theft or somesuch thing.

That being said, I'm no legal expert, so take that as you will.

What a lot of people misinterpret about Patreon is that it's a money making scam. While yes, some patreon users do make enough from pledges to support themselves on it, patreon in concept is no different that a NPO doing a pledge drive to hire contractors to renovate a historical site or something similar. That's why it's called pledging and not donating or investing. In the end using Patreon to be able to commission artwork or hire coding specialists, or etc. is well above broad. Even so, as an adult "parody" of Zero no Tsukaima, as you said, the legal line is very fine and blurry but should still be protected under fair use. However, I too am not a legal professional so my advice may be misinformed.

brontanius Wrote:

snakevenom386 Wrote:

Zaiaku666 Wrote:.

That would be a sad event, though I've yet to hear of a company aside from DC comics complaining about an adult parody.

kildar Wrote:The game is a lot of fun and surprisingly complete (as in everything works, there are just sections you can't access yet)
It does need more content, but for a V0.2 its fairly good.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

I do think it needs a calendar system or something that tells you if you missed a scene, but thats just nit picking.
Lastly, the game is a bit of a grind atm, but once more content is added that should change.

suggestions:
Above calendar and %complete system
more rooms. ie a place to eat, being able to go outside (walks maybe?), the elemental towers?(visiting the teachers for lessons?), the capital city (Jessica and the queen),
Being able to see what spells we have.
a shop, (buying herbs to stop pregnancy? Potions? enchantment?)
random encounters
fights/training outside (ork hunting for gold+practice?)
Quests

Everything else is just completing the game, ie more spying options. So i'll stop here.
its got a ton of potential though

Thank you for all the suggestions!, I'll give some of them a try for the next build, btw currently it's impossible to miss an event but I guess a way of making the player know when is he going to get one would be good.

Thank you all for playing!

Zaiaku666 Wrote:

snakevenom386 Wrote:

brontanius Wrote:I personally ain't going to say much but I'm not sure if what you are doing is really legal. No consequence of mine though, gonna try the game when i get back.

I like the game so far, but I'm afraid I'll have to agree with him. my recommendation would be to take out all the "lend" pictures ASAP, since you're now making (or at least trying to make) money off of this, and it would therefore probably constitute as theft or somesuch thing.

That being said, I'm no legal expert, so take that as you will.

What a lot of people misinterpret about Patreon is that it's a money making scam. While yes, some patreon users do make enough from pledges to support themselves on it, patreon in concept is no different that a NPO doing a pledge drive to hire contractors to renovate a historical site or something similar. That's why it's called pledging and not donating or investing. In the end using Patreon to be able to commission artwork or hire coding specialists, or etc. is well above broad. Even so, as an adult "parody" of Zero no Tsukaima, as you said, the legal line is very fine and blurry but should still be protected under fair use. However, I too am not a legal professional so my advice may be misinformed.

What you're doing is unlawful. You are earning money on somebody else's intellectual property (both FoZ and the images). You're in the unfortunate position that you are earning money, but not enough to pay for a good lawyer, so a fair use defense is unlikely to work. At the very least, make sure nobody ever has to pledge to get anything related to the game, and you'll be able to claim it's a side project that you're not earning money on, and save the ransom for original work.

Again: What you are doing is unlawful. "I'm not earning money on it" is not a valid defense, and would almost guarantee a ruling against you in the case of a lawsuit.

Clarification: This comment is about the law, not my opinions.

Kurushimi Wrote:
What you're doing is unlawful. You are earning money on somebody else's intellectual property (both FoZ and the images). You're in the unfortunate position that you are earning money, but not enough to pay for a good lawyer, so a fair use defense is unlikely to work. At the very least, make sure nobody ever has to pledge to get anything related to the game, and you'll be able to claim it's a side project that you're not earning money on, and save the ransom for original work.

Again: What you are doing is unlawful. "I'm not earning money on it" is not a valid defense, and would almost guarantee a ruling against you in the case of a lawsuit.

Clarification: This comment is about the law, not my opinions.

It actually depends on how you look at it; take for instance doujindoujinshi/dojin/dojinshi -- they are also parodies, but are allowed to be sold, albeit barely. -- What he is doing is similar, as he stated he is only using patreon to get fund to hire an artist, or more, to make art for the game.

As long as he has a disclaimer it should be fine

Link to Wikipedia's section on Fair Use and Parody

Yamemai Wrote:

Kurushimi Wrote:
What you're doing is unlawful. You are earning money on somebody else's intellectual property (both FoZ and the images). You're in the unfortunate position that you are earning money, but not enough to pay for a good lawyer, so a fair use defense is unlikely to work. At the very least, make sure nobody ever has to pledge to get anything related to the game, and you'll be able to claim it's a side project that you're not earning money on, and save the ransom for original work.

Again: What you are doing is unlawful. "I'm not earning money on it" is not a valid defense, and would almost guarantee a ruling against you in the case of a lawsuit.

Clarification: This comment is about the law, not my opinions.

It actually depends on how you look at it; take for instance doujindoujinshi/dojin/dojinshi -- they are also parodies, but are allowed to be sold, albeit barely. -- What he is doing is similar, as he stated he is only using patreon to get fund to hire an artist, or more, to make art for the game.

As long as he has a disclaimer it should be fine

Link to Wikipedia's section on Fair Use and Parody

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody

The way I see it is that the issue lies in the art, since he didn't make it, and is - presumably - using it without permission from the people who did, all while trying to monetize the game. as for the other stuff, parodies definitely fall under fair use, so that shouldn't be a problem in and of itself.

this is how I think this works, but as I stated earlier, I am no legal expert.

Yamemai Wrote:It actually depends on how you look at it; take for instance doujindoujinshi/dojin/dojinshi -- they are also parodies, but are allowed to be sold, albeit barely. -- What he is doing is similar, as he stated he is only using patreon to get fund to hire an artist, or more, to make art for the game.

As long as he has a disclaimer it should be fine

Link to Wikipedia's section on Fair Use and Parody

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody

Disclaimers are not get out of jail free cards. A fair use defense could work, but I wouldn't depend on it: More information on fair use

It's not very transformative, the original is fiction, the entire world is taken, but at least there's not a significant market for this.

I'm not saying this game shouldn't be made - I like it and want more. I just want the creator to be properly informed about the legal issues involved.

The good news is that a lot of companies open with a cease & desist instead of a lawsuit.

Kurushimi Wrote:

Yamemai Wrote:It actually depends on how you look at it; take for instance doujindoujinshi/dojin/dojinshi -- they are also parodies, but are allowed to be sold, albeit barely. -- What he is doing is similar, as he stated he is only using patreon to get fund to hire an artist, or more, to make art for the game.

As long as he has a disclaimer it should be fine

Link to Wikipedia's section on Fair Use and Parody

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody

Disclaimers are not get out of jail free cards. A fair use defense could work, but I wouldn't depend on it: More information on fair use

It's not very transformative, the original is fiction, the entire world is taken, but at least there's not a significant market for this.

I'm not saying this game shouldn't be made - I like it and want more. I just want the creator to be properly informed about the legal issues involved.

The good news is that a lot of companies open with a cease & desist instead of a lawsuit.

Don't have time to read that article right now, so will bookmark it cuz information/knowledge is power; anyways, I never said it was, just said that he'd be fine, as he would openly state he doesn't have the rights for it, that it is a parody, and maybe his intent on why he's making it -- Also, I remember reading somewhere that the original author of Zero died, and his, unfinished work, was 'finished' by someone else and published, lol. (This means that the ending is kinda 'fandom'.)

@smalevenom386 -- Yeah, I agree with you here, that'd be the main concern.

PS. Imo, what a disclaimer does is lower the chances a company would out-right sue you, and maybe ask you to C&D -- Also, he'd need one for age and that it's an 18+ work already, so might as well the extra mile.

I ain't no law expert, this is a very shady as fuck line that the dev is crossing but I personally think it is illegal. The dev is using too much of the original Ip's content and non original art(not sure if the dev at the moment has any of his own in there) for the game to be classed under fair use and even though patreon is a donation site and it there to support the dev through donations per month from people, it is still classed widely as a source of revenue. That means he is using stolen or rather "borrowed" content at the moment and is earning money off it. Doesn't matter if he has stated that all the money will go to the artists to hire them for original content, simply because the money is going straight to him and not straight to the artist, if he keeps even a cent/penny, then is is full out illegal as far as I know. Again I ain't a law expert. I did however find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiYEKDQZ5sk Game theory's video on "My fan game is a crime?" and it seems interesting. It should allow us a bit more to figure out if this is totally illegal. Either way though, patreon will terminate his account if it ever bothers to do a full look at the pledge. It does seem very illegal after all and they probably won't show mercy.

Yamemai Wrote:I remember reading somewhere that the original author of Zero died, and his, unfinished work, was 'finished' by someone else and published, lol. (This means that the ending is kinda 'fandom'.)

He'd need one for age and that it's an 18+ work already, so might as well the extra mile.

iirc he died and his assistants couldn't finish the LN because the family refused to lend them the original manuscript ideas he left, but they have finally accepted to and the LN may be finished next year.

I also completely forgot about the 18+ disclaimer, it'll make sure to add it on the next build!

That said, since none of us is a lawyer and internet rules are really shady, could you discuss the game instead?

waterdrop Wrote:I also completely forgot about the 18+ disclaimer, it'll make sure to add it on the next build!

That said, since none of us is a lawyer and internet rules are really shady, could you discuss the game instead?

Well if you want us to discuss the game, it is a good game at least. Very good quality at the moment for a v0.2 compared to other things that are uploaded to this forums. High quality art, although borrowed atm, and hopefully will be the same or even better quality when it is commissioned and fully legal without any shade. Gameplay is simplistic and easy enough to follow while also providing a bit of depth. Could be improved upon a bit when more content is released. Feature wise, fairly decent, plenty of choices to make, again could be improved with more content.
The spy mechanic definitely needs to be improved to include the other women, could also put in a mechanic that the spider can get caught if we aren't a strong enough mage to mask it's presence, this could be placed as you may be able to spy on the other mage chicks that could find your familiar.
A currency system could be put in place and allow the player to earn money and spend it, maybe work in the pub.This could allow for a magic+merchant light path or a magic slave trader or something dark path.
Also maybe allow the player to romance selina(i think that is her name, the one you rape in the pub) to provide an alternate path there and also maybe allow him to romance tabitha and the black chick(not being racist, just can't remember her name). Also, another possible thing that you can do is allow the player to romance a teacher(maybe an added in character not from the original story) by paying attention in class. Possibly also a way to romance multiple characters at once for "group meetings" hehehe.
Also, I wonder if you have any plans for familiar evolution, I like the spider, it is cute enough and I like to call it Malkoth, destroyer of worlds but for that name to really ring home, it needs a bit more... oomph.
As for plot, fairly bog standard plot. You are a mage, get stronger, be good/evil and get x ending. Not much to really discuss here.

waterdrop Wrote:I also completely forgot about the 18+ disclaimer, it'll make sure to add it on the next build!

That said, since none of us is a lawyer and internet rules are really shady, could you discuss the game instead?

Hee, yeah, the discussion got pretty derailed there huh, sorry.

Anyways, as I said in another forum, the game is alright, as far as a raising sim goes; to add on, it's better at it's current stage then most other, and pretty straightforward/non-intuitive. -- Can't really say much about the game-play, since it's pretty bare-bone, imo, right now, and you'll be adding more later on, but I would also like to see more uses for your spells example:

Kurushimi Wrote:What you're doing is unlawful. You are earning money on somebody else's intellectual property (both FoZ and the images). You're in the unfortunate position that you are earning money, but not enough to pay for a good lawyer, so a fair use defense is unlikely to work. At the very least, make sure nobody ever has to pledge to get anything related to the game, and you'll be able to claim it's a side project that you're not earning money on, and save the ransom for original work.

Again: What you are doing is unlawful. "I'm not earning money on it" is not a valid defense, and would almost guarantee a ruling against you in the case of a lawsuit.

Clarification: This comment is about the law, not my opinions.

The law for Fair Use has been changed in courts in the last 40 years. Copyright used to be about "Progressing the Arts and Sciences" before a shift in the 70s to give more publishers power and control over artists. A Fair Use defense is unlikely to work because a court is used to uphold corporate interests.

Yes, you can go to court, but good luck on it when you're fighting for a parody.

And no, the contract that a company makes with ITS workers does not translate to them having complete control over a work. This continues to come into a moral argument when it's actually an economic one. Fair Use is a defense in court. It's unlikely that a company will sue you except to make you fear using their work. That's still control over a property which is a license you never signed in the first place.

Finally, Patreon is a service. You get money from people to provide a service with constant updates and continuous bug fixes which is a different relationship than making your games into finished products as was the case in the 90s. People use Patreon because the banking industry has failed on loans since their rates are out of the hands of most people. It's what artists do. To try to criminalize the products of these artists for what they work on in regards to parodies is a little baffling.

Still, if you want some information, here ya go:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150 ... ense.shtml

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160 ... -use.shtml

brontanius Wrote:

Yamemai Wrote:

Don't worry about the girls, I'll do as much as possible to include all of them!

I'm glad you've liked the game so far, I want it to be as grind-free as possible but I guess a currency system can be implemented to get some not obligatory bonuses or make some things easier, for example once more and harder combats are implemented.

Hello and Merry Christmas!

After fixing what I hope are all the typos from version 0.20 I'm happy to finally release version 0.21!