Legend of Krystal Forums

You know what, let's make this its own topic. I'd like to make a sort of RPG with a random dungeon generator. Instead of fighting things, you have sex. By having sex, you gain "experience" and deplete your "stamina". Raising your "skill" lets you deplete opponents (?) stamina more quickly.

Or that was the first idea, now it looks like I'm just going to make a brawler game with some sex scenes somewhere.

This is where I will put the game. I'm still working on the main features, but what I have is here:

Update Log:
Latest Aug-15-2016
Cleaned up animations, added the hitbox system and enemy placement, but hitbox system is not working, see latest post for details if you want to help.

And here is the source file if you want it. The program is all FlashDevelop, no expensive FlashCS necessary.


If you were super disappointed that there's no game here yet, you can try some of my non-pornographic random dungeon games since the new game will be similar:
Roguette
Fortress of Fantasm (this is probably the one I will base it on)
Diabolical Dungeons of Dr. Devil


EDIT: 8/9
Actually, I'm also thinking of just making a brawler game. Since the dungeon exploration engine is based on my old brawler games, I could possibly still do both, it depends on what I want to focus on. So now I'm updating the brawler engine from my old brawler projects. It will mostly be based on the engine from
Pico Brawler 2012: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/594621
60s Space Amazon: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/598234
As before, the final game will probably look more like Fortress of Fantasm, but with the jumping and grabbing and so forth

Here's where the brainstorming begins:

Things I've got so far:

I'd like to try out my 3D animating skills for this one. This means it would be a little more work to make the models and less work to make the animations compared to 2D animations, but potentially huge spritesheet files might restrict how much I can put into the game.

Because of less-characters-more-animation approach, I think you will play as only one character. If it seems like I can get away with multiple characters, I think I would arrange them as one-at-a-time style like in Pokemon.



Things I need to work out:

I don't really know what sort of theme the game game should have. Fantasy, sci-fi, urban, who knows. I would like to use an anthro character for the hero, I don't know about the rest.
- Fantasy. Since it's an "RPG" I could make it RPG inspired, fucking slimes and centaurs and dragons. It can be tricky to draw things like forests or fields, but if I stick to things like caves and ruins, it's not so bad. "Magic" would be very useful for plot devices and items and so forth.

- Sci-Fi. You'd be on a space station or future city or something, fucking aliens and robots and so forth. Aliens could be anthros or monsters or a race of people shaped like dildos or whatever. Sci-fi environments are easy to draw, or at least can be, because they can look like anything.

- Urban. You'd be in a city fucking other people. Probably some seedy red light district, but something like a college campus could work, or something totally absurd like the library. I think a city of humans would get boring, but a city of anthros could have potential. Urban environments can be very difficult to draw, a lot of signs and bricks and windows make for a lot of detail that needs to fill the scene. Urban environments are also not the best shape for my current model of random dungeon generator.

I'm assuming you would play as a female and it would run sorta like the Princess Peach and Legend of Krystal games, but it could be fun to play as a man and find different types of women as you go. It could also be funny to play as something like a slime or an astromech droid depending on the setting. I would need to consider how many graphics I need to make for each approach.

One would assume there will be some sort of "opponent" around in the dungeon. I have done this 3 different ways in the past.
- In Roguette, there are mostly random encounters that appear out of nowhere like Pokemon or Final Fantasy, plus strong enemies that are placed randomly and will trigger combat if you get too close, and big bosses that block the entrances to the next area. In Roguette, none of these move around the dungeon, which is nice and easy to program.

- In Diabolical Dungeons of Dr. Devil, there are no random encounters, but there are Ms and Xs that move around the map. Ms move completely randomly. Xs will flip a coin and either move randomly or toward your character. I have never made a pathfinding formula, so Xs moving toward you will often get stuck on walls. In DDDD, combat is resolved automatically, which was a bit boring for combat, but might be more enjoyable for RPG sex. Mostly automatic combat with a few panic buttons might work well.

- In Fortress of Fantasm, each dungeon tile is a room and you move through doors to the next room until you get to the end. Enemies can be in the rooms when you enter them. Important rooms will have different backgrounds and more enemies in them. FoF was a little easier to follow because the combat screen and map screen were the same, but it was less dungeoneering more combat than the other two games, I think it might be a little boring without brawling.

I need to work out the goals of the game and how the player would be rewarded for playing.

- Exploration. The random dungeon generator makes exploration much more potential. But as you explore places, you need to be able to find new things, and places that are hard to reach should be the most interesting. (although don't neglect narrative hook)

- Advancement. Leveling up, getting new items, etc, makes your character better and able to take on stronger challenges. This often ties in with Exploration, getting stronger gives you access to new areas, or just increasing your stamina gives you more time to go exploring. As far as getting items, I think I would arrange it so that you grab a more arcade-like power-up or go to the sex-gym and work out to increase stats, rather than equip a "sword" or something. RPG equipment is also a bitch to program. I've done it before but ... damn.

- Completion. There should be some sort of big event, Final Boss, Happy Ending kinda thing at some point. Minor bosses will help give a feeling of completion throughout the experience if it's really long. Completion can also be related to Exploration and Advancement, a little reward for finding all the areas or becoming the highest level or finding all the items or whatever.

- Combat. Typically, the RPG has some sort of strategic element to combat, or an action element to modern games, which makes succeeding in combat feel like a triumph. I'd rather spend the most energy on sex scenes and random dungeon, so I don't want to mess with a complicated combat system. Especially since the "combat" in question is sex, and options will be limited to the amount of sex animations I can add to the game before it either crashes Flash or takes an hour to load. I think the most you will get is some sort of panic button, like healing potion or limit break.

This gives me a sort of dungeon crawler VN vibe. Have you ever played any VN's or eroge along those lines? I would recommend doing so if not, because of all else, it might be perfect research for your game. I've got a few off the top of my head that use the various game styles you listed, so you can see which one you would prefer. Would you like them?

Nah. The last thing I did was more story-based, I'd rather do something that's more arcade-like or simulation-like this time. More like NetHack than Final Fantasy.

Been thinking.

Assuming that using a lot of 3D spritesheets will cause problems, since they have before, it would need less spritesheets to do Fortress of Fantasm/RiverCityRansom style maps instead of DDDD/Final Fantasy maps. It's also less complicated to do the maps that way instead of tiles. And it would be more natural to do smaller sex scene spritesheets. So easier for several reasons, and actually probably better looking as well.

I could do an initiative mechanic. So if you collide with an "opponent" while it's facing away from you, you get an extra "attack" on it draining the stamina, conversely, if something grabs you from behind, they drain some extra stamina from you. This would probably involve some sort of special animation, so each encounter would have a player-initiative start, opponent-initiative start and neutral initiative start, and then probably the same sex loop and finish, regardless of how it starts. However, it might be more entertaining to have a bunch of potential animations that activate from the same type of opponent. After all, it would be less work to make, for example, 4 opponents with 6 animations each than 12 opponents with 2 animations each. Also, I might give out some sort of long term reward for initiative related activity, like you get extra money if you win a fight with initiative or extra exp if you win a fight without initiative. Or getting initiative improves your "attack" stats and losing initiative improves your "defense" stats. There's probably more potential there than I really want to pursue.

I could have your character run by holding down a button or pressing →→. Running could require stamina, so you have to strategically decide when to run. This could be the same stamina that you use for combat, so you'd have to decide if you would lose less stamina by running away than you would if you got caught. In this case, you would probably be able to regain stamina by passing time, though I would want to think of something so that you can't just go make a sandwich and come back to a character with full health. Maybe new enemies will enter the room if you wait too long, or there's some sort of adrenaline/libido bar that depletes if you wait too long. In Fortress of Fantasm, you regained health each time you entered a new room, but each time you entered a new room, there was a chance of a new enemy encounter, so long term, it was dangerous to try and revive yourself this way.

AcetheSuperVillain Wrote:Nah. The last thing I did was more story-based, I'd rather do something that's more arcade-like or simulation-like this time. More like NetHack than Final Fantasy.

You don't have to copy the story elements of the VN games to use them for research. The dungeon and battle mechanics are more than enough reason. Besides, you can also look into them for monster designs and sex scene inspiration. I would recommend the Raidy franchise for dungeon layout and monster design (though be prepared for fetish content), and Desire Dungeon for more monster design, sex scene ideas and mechanical inspiration. I especially like that both winning and losing fights give different sex scenes while neither result in a game over. The story gives it a no pressure/guilt feel, and you actually benefit from losing fights every so often. So yeah, even if you don't want a lot of story, these games can provide a lot of ideas from mechanics, what sex scenes you'd like to program in, all the way to aesthetics and general feel of the game.

like devilbird said, i meant it more for the game mechanics then story elements. the Violated Hero series has shifted game design enough that playing through that series might give you some ideas or help you decide which mechanic would work better for your game.

I'm familiar with Raidy. I guess I worry that the VNs are going to be super rapey and lolicony, which isn't fun for me. I guess I also worry that real eroge hire real programmers to do these games, and I am not a real programmer, nor a very good one, so it would be a collection of mechanics I couldn't do even if I wanted. Like, having an RPG item-equipment system is going to be over my head, any items will be more like scrolling shooter bombs or arcade power-ups. I know it shouldn't hurt to just look at them, but I'm kinda cramped for time these days. I will read some reviews of these games and see if any sound worthwhile.

For starts, I'm not thrilled about the idea of losing on purpose. If you've ever played Rogue-likes, losing is BAD, and the desire to not lose is part of what makes those games so compelling. It seems to me that the original reason for giving an extra sex scene for losing is that otherwise there is no sex scene, which is automatically solved if the "combat" is sex to begin with. Like I suggesting with the initiative mechanic, messing up once in a while could give some kind of extra scene or bonus, but outright losing should be something to be avoided.

That said, the typical Rogue-like outright instant perma-death is probably too severe a punishment for a Flash game audience. I could give you multiple lives, like an arcade game, with the ability to find more in the dungeon or make more, such as by getting lots of points, sacrificing something, completing achievements, etc. Or I could go D&D and make you lose exp or items when you get killed. Probably a lot, like half your levels.

shouldn't this be in the Discussion area for now?

Again, try Desire Dungeon. It isn't a high budget game as far as I can tell, so it should be a good place to mine ideas, and it isn't too story heavy. The main thing about losing in that game is that it actually plays a part in what story that it has. The premise is that you have found a dungeon famous for the beautiful monsters that reside inside. They bait adventurers with promises of treasure, so they can capture them and have sex, as this gives them a boost in spiritual energy and acts like food. After they've had their fill, they return the adventurer to the town they have a deal with, so they can rest up and try again. Many adventurers end up entering either because of the promise of treasure, the no risk adventuring, or just because they are interested in the monster girls. This means there is no gore and little violence, and all sex in this context is consensual. Mechanically, if you lose a fight you return to town, halting your progress in the dungeon. You lose half of your gold (if I remember right) and the monster that defeated you gets a stat increase, making it tougher the next time you attempt the dungeon. Finally, if you win 2 times and lose 2 times against the same monster, then defeat the final boss of the dungeon, it treats it like you have chosen to marry that monster. You get a quick little happy ending, and then can attempt the game again to try for a different monster.

Thus losing a fight makes the game a bit tougher every time, but it also isn't an end all situation. It was more of a slow down than an actual loss, and you got to enjoy a different scene than you would get if you won. You also felt compelled to keep pressing forward and winning more than you lost, as it meant completing the game and getting the monster you wanted. Finally, it never felt "rapey" as everyone in the dungeon was just looking for a good time. You don't have to actually use these ideas or mechanics.However, it also wouldn't hurt to look at the game. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression for saying losing was a benefit.

Dead2112man Wrote:shouldn't this be in the Discussion area for now?

I would have, but the discussion forum is really slow. I'll try to get a playable proof of concept ready within the week.

To that end, I have been preparing some proof of concept graphics:



So this is the same size it will be on the final game, 800x600. The actual room is 1600x600, and you will pan back and forth as you move left to right. Doors will appear at the 4 ends of the room, if there's another room to go to. (exactly the same as FoF for now) The textures and the character are cleaned from graphics I had lying around. I will use them for the playable proof-of-concept, but they do not necessarily represent what I want from a final game.



As for Desire Dungeon, it doesn't sound like something I want to play, but I could consider some mechanics from your description. The idea that you get something extra for spending a lot of time with a particular opponent could be good, especially if you get stuck dealing with a few common types repeatedly.

Fair enough. Different tastes an all that. It occurs to me that I've been doing nothing but getting caught up in other games, and not actually asking anything about the game you plan on designing. For that I am sorry. I'm gonna try and think up some questions to ask that will help us understand your vision better while helping you think up new concepts (you did ask us to help brainstorm after all). Having tried Fortress of Fantasm, and seeing your character and dungeon design pics in this thread, I think I can come up with a few good ones. I'll post my questions list later today, so be ready for a lot. Other then that, I'll be looking forward to playing your proof of concept.

Main Character

1)Can a player unlock new characters, such as NPCs or the monsters you fight against?

2) Is equipment going to be a thing?

3) If leveling and sex skill is a thing, can it be assumed that there will be a skill tree system?

Level Design

1) Will it be a single level or multiple levels?

2) Assuming multiple levels, will there be any distinction between the design of floors, rooms, boss rooms, etc?

3) Will things like false doors or walls, destructible environments or one-way passages be a thing?

4) Will there be hidden treasure, shops or teleporters?

5) Since you are undecided on what theme to go with, have you thought about blending theme? Such as a magitech sci-fi setting where it would be sci-fi elements and environments, but magic would still be a real thing. This would also give you some creative freedom on what kind of monsters you can have. Such as alien magi, mana fueled golems and robotic dragons, or centaur with hightech energy rifles.

Combat

1) You said that combat will be sex based. How exactly will this be implemented?

2) Will it be Hack & Slash like Fortress of Fantasm? If so, how will that work?

3) Will it be more grapple based? If so, will it be one-way like in Love Potion Disaster? Or will it be two-way like in Twin Orbs?

4) Will it be that if you run into something in the dungeon, it will send you into an rpg menu based system?

5) Will there be traps? Additionally, would you be able to set traps to give you an advantage like in Night Games?

6) Would there be some sort of magic or range system?

Awesome, these kind of questions will be helpful. To start out with, if this format of game does not require a great deal of cussing to complete, I will try a few different themes and mechanics.

devilbird Wrote:Main Character

1)Can a player unlock new characters, such as NPCs or the monsters you fight against?

Probably not. If it were actually 3D, this would be easier, but with pre-rendered spritesheets, I would need to include a sheet for every combination of characters which would turn it into a massive game file very quickly. I need to get a feel for how much animation I really need and how much animation will cause technical difficulty. It may be simpler to put different characters in different games.

2) Is equipment going to be a thing?

Definitely not Final Fantasy or Diablo style equipment, but possibly something more like the equipable power-ups you get in the Frantic games or other scrolling shooters.

3) If leveling and sex skill is a thing, can it be assumed that there will be a skill tree system?

So a skill tree isn't that hard to program, but skills might be. I'm not a huge fan of that sort of MMO style of game, so that exact format doesn't hold much appeal. As with equipment, something more like upgradey scrolling shooters or Flight/Toss the Turtle style games would be more my preference.

Level Design

1) Will it be a single level or multiple levels?

2) Assuming multiple levels, will there be any distinction between the design of floors, rooms, boss rooms, etc?

I definitely want the player to be able to discover cool things by exploring. NetHack and Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup use branching paths, for example, dungeon level 2, 3 or 4 of NetHack's Dungeons of Doom will have a side route off to the Gnomish Mines, which has a different kind of dungeon creating algorithm and a different blend of monsters. I would love to do this, I'm not sure how tricky it would be to pull off. Because there's very little work involved in making more levels with the random dungeon generator, there's no reason not to at least have a long linear dungeon with increasingly difficult enemies.

3) Will things like false doors or walls, destructible environments or one-way passages be a thing?

'

Not sure. This can be tricky with the random dungeon as it may result in an unsolvable dungeon.

4) Will there be hidden treasure, shops or teleporters?

There should definitely be something to go find in the dungeon, a reason to explore. These might be permanent power-ups like double jump or improved dash (assuming such things would be useful). Or the point of the game might be to find a certain number of "keys" that are spread throughout the dungeon. Something based on NetHack-style shops could be interesting. (In NetHack there is no town or base that you go back to, so shops are just scattered throughout the dungeon. If you find something you want to buy someday, you have to remember where the shop is. I don't think the various comedy elements of NetHack shops will be necessary.)

5) Since you are undecided on what theme to go with, have you thought about blending theme? Such as a magitech sci-fi setting where it would be sci-fi elements and environments, but magic would still be a real thing. This would also give you some creative freedom on what kind of monsters you can have. Such as alien magi, mana fueled golems and robotic dragons, or centaur with hightech energy rifles.

I'm not opposed to blending, but magitech setting would not be my first choice. Something like Wizard College or Pimps in Space maybe. And I mean, sure, sci-fi centaurs are cool, but does it matter if the centaur has a lazer rifle if your only means of interaction is bumping fugglies? Are there going to be enough opportunities to present that kind of world building?

I would say that an anthro sci-fi magic porno sounds a little too over-the-top to work, but it has been done before...

Combat

1) You said that combat will be sex based. How exactly will this be implemented?

...

At the moment, I'm thinking the sex would be resolved automatically, like when you find a goomba in Mario is Missing, perhaps with the option of panic buttons like using a stamina potion or a limit break sort of maneuver. The gameplay would be in avoiding or surprising your opponents, so the dungeon denizens might have more platformer/avoider game style behavior. Some might follow you, some might run away from you, some might transform if they see you or change states over time, some might call for help, that sort of thing. Connecting with an enemy will initiate the sex scene and pause any other opponents in combat. (they might watch you and masturbate, but that might not work or be desirable for all opponent types) Certain types of opponent might be able to join in, like if there are two of the same kind within a certain distance, touching either one starts a threesome with both at once. I might give you some sort of "attack" button, a glomp or a pheromone spray or sexy taunt or something like that, that changes opponent behavior or what sex scene you get.

5) Will there be traps? Additionally, would you be able to set traps to give you an advantage like in Night Games?

Maybe some environmental hazards like a smash bros bumper that can knock you into opponents or swampy ground that slows you down. Setting traps sounds like a programming nightmare.

6) Would there be some sort of magic or range system?

Maybe in some games, you could do a dance that depletes enemy stamina before the sex starts or shoot a freeze ray to stop things from moving or a drunk ray that changes behavior. I want to see what the game is like without magic/range before thinking about that.

Let me lay down some theme ideas. I say "dungeon" because that's the original purpose of the piece of programming, but the "dungeon" can be anything, it doesn't have to be a

Anthro City - One of the themes I wanted to try for the Frank's Adventure style game was to go on vacation to a specific place, like New York City or Shanghai or an Amazon River Cruise, and you meet anthros that are based on local wildlife. Like you might find pidgeon babes and raccoon babes in NYC, tiger babes and panda babes in Shanghai, piranha babes and caiman babes in the Amazon, etc. In the adventure game, the idea would be that you are on vacation and solve puzzles and do favors that reward you with sex scenes and funny dialog. Random maps and level grinding could offer a different approach, like you start in the sewers of NYC going down on rats and roaches, and fuck your way to the top and bone a red tailed hawk on a high-rise. It could possibly be more of a river city ransom situation where you are some kind of street gang fighting (or avoiding) thugs while looking for babes to bang. That would be more complicated and not necessarily more fun.

Sex Thief - One of the bits of dialog from Knarf's Adventure was that a thief stole an ancient artifact dildo by fucking all the museum guards into a coma and taking their keys. I could turn that situation into a random dungeon game.

Crash Island - You crash-land on a randomly deserted island and you have to find food and shelter to survive. As you explore, you can rescue girls that also crashlanded and have to provide food and shelter for them as well, kinda like Pokkoloh, but people can die off or get sick if you ignore them. For that theme, I'd probably split you into combat exp and sex exp, so you fight things like crabs or pigs out in the woods to get food and do girls when you're back at camp.

Pimps in Space - You are a space pimp and you collect space babes, kinda like pokemon. Your space babes can get fucked by space monsters for cash, or you can take on other space pimps. This would be tricky with spritesheets, either everyone needs to have the same body type and sex positions to interlock, which would be boring, or sex animations could not touch each other, like the combat animations in Pokemon Stadium, which would be weird. Possibly the space babes could actually fight things, but in a sexy way, like shoot milk lasers or butt bash things. There might be some smoother way to handle it that I'm not thinking of.

So based on what you've presented so far, it sounds like Anthro City and Sex Thief are closest to your original dungeon crawl idea, with Sex Thief being the one that requires less work. Pimps in space sounds like it would be complicated and confusing. Crash Island sounds fun, but seems to be less of a dungeon crawler and more of an adult survival game. It's a bit off from what you originally proposed, but it would definitely be unique. I don't think I've actually seen an adult themed survival game, little lone in flash format. So even if you don't go with the idea, you'll definitely want to at least save it for a future project.

It seems to me that Sex Thief is probably the one you want for now. Of course, these are just my opinions and should only be considered as such.

I like the idea, just pure unadulterated sex with randoms in a dungeon. That's pretty good, Lemme know when you wanna go full 3d as I have some experience programming in unity and may be able to help you there. I already have a bunch of jigglebones and size modification scripts, so if you rig properly, I can totally get it done for you.

devilbird Wrote:It seems to me that Sex Thief is probably the one you want for now. Of course, these are just my opinions and should only be considered as such.

Yeah, I guess I worry that Sex Thief is a little too easy, and I'm not sure I'd be able to include enough interesting opponent types or exploration areas. I could extrapolate to something like, venture into the dungeons of doom to steal the Enchanted Dildo of Arexia or infiltrate StarBase 69 and rescue the Star Princess.

ANooB Wrote:I like the idea, just pure unadulterated sex with randoms in a dungeon. That's pretty good, Lemme know when you wanna go full 3d as I have some experience programming in unity and may be able to help you there. I already have a bunch of jigglebones and size modification scripts, so if you rig properly, I can totally get it done for you.

Well, I like the idea of someone else doing the programming for me, but I have yet to manage a successful collaboration and I know that my as3 dungeonizer and as3 brawler engines already work, which should be all the groundwork I need for this game.

AcetheSuperVillain Wrote:

devilbird Wrote:It seems to me that Sex Thief is probably the one you want for now. Of course, these are just my opinions and should only be considered as such.

Yeah, I guess I worry that Sex Thief is a little too easy, and I'm not sure I'd be able to include enough interesting opponent types or exploration areas. I could extrapolate to something like, venture into the dungeons of doom to steal the Enchanted Dildo of Arexia or infiltrate StarBase 69 and rescue the Star Princess.

ANooB Wrote:I like the idea, just pure unadulterated sex with randoms in a dungeon. That's pretty good, Lemme know when you wanna go full 3d as I have some experience programming in unity and may be able to help you there. I already have a bunch of jigglebones and size modification scripts, so if you rig properly, I can totally get it done for you.

Well, I like the idea of someone else doing the programming for me, but I have yet to manage a successful collaboration and I know that my as3 dungeonizer and as3 brawler engines already work, which should be all the groundwork I need for this game.

Ok, man. I'm an AS3 master, as well. So hit me up, either way if you wanna send me some work or something.

ANooB Wrote:

AcetheSuperVillain Wrote:Ok, man. I'm an AS3 master, as well. So hit me up, either way if you wanna send me some work or something.

Okay, sure. First, let me continue trying to upgrade my existing systems for the new purpose. I'm trying to arrange it so that I can make the game with only FlashDevelop and no FlashCS, since technical difficulties between the FlashCS and large spritesheets have hindered me in the past. The new version should also be more clear for others than me to read and understand. I'll PM you with the file when it's ready.

If you want something to do for now, I have posted the source from the predecessor games here: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6733