Might do a 3D game

[AcetheSuperVillain]

I decided to not be productive for a few days and look into making 3D flash games again. I tried Unity for a while, but it's kind of a drag if you're not making the FPS or Platformer game they designed it for, and Chrome doesn't support Unity Webplayer anyways. You can make 3D games in Flash. There was a big hype about it when it was first introduced, but it looks like nobody give it much of a try. I tried downloading Away3Dv4, but after couple of hours dicking around with "tutorials" I didn't have a clue how to use it.

And then I remembered, I'm an artist, I shouldn't be messing around with this programming biz, I should be flaunting my stuff:

windy_sprite_idle.png (17.93 KiB) Viewed 3475 times

windy_sprite_walk.gif (42.56 KiB) Viewed 3475 times

windy_sprite_hop.gif (20.72 KiB) Viewed 3475 times

windy_sprite_dance.gif (22.33 KiB) Viewed 3475 times

windy_sprite_thump.gif (26.29 KiB) Viewed 3475 times

So if I want to use graphics like this in a Flash game, I've got two options, to render them out like this and import them in Flash as spritesheets, or turn this file into a dae/collada and use them in one of the 3D APIs. Either option would involve begging the good programmers of LoK Forum to help, because dayum, I forgot how much I hate programming and screwing around with the APIs.

A little more ranting about the 3D APIs: I've tried making games with Alternativa3D before, but the API just straight-up doesn't work on detailed meshes sometimes. I think the killer is having too many animation bones at one time. I showed it to an Alternativa3D enthusiast who was able to look under the hood and understand why it wasn't working. He emailed the developers about it and they basically told him "if it's not about tanks, we don't care." So I tried Away3D a few times, but I have a hard time loading assets in it. Away3D wants you to use its custom .awd files, but the .awd exporter in blender doesn't work. I found a tutorial about converting .md5 files to .awd using the Away Builder, but the latest .md5 exporter for blender is years old and doesn't work either. I tried to load some collada files into Away Builder and it works fine until I get to animations and then Away Builder just shits itself and passes out. (throws a classic error 1009 too) There's another one called Flare3D, which I never tried because it costs 500$ a year to own a license to make games commercially. I mean, I guess I'm not making games commercially anymore, but making hentai for a living sure would be nice and I hate to put everything behind a program that's going to be an asshole about it later on.

Even doing pre-rendered spritesheets has its troubles. The last time I tried it, the Flash IDE threw an enormous hissy fit about the gigantic spritesheets and just started crashing repeatedly while I was working on the game, even though that game is really bare compared to what I wanted to make. I could probably get around this by using a FlashDevelop-only blit engine, but I'm not sure if it would actually work, and it means going without the nice things the IDE does for you. (Are there nice things? I feel like there used to be nice things...) And if I'm using giant spritesheets, I should really be using a GPU API, like Starling, but if I'm going to use an API like that, I feel like I might as well grit my teeth and make the 3D ones work. Prerendered sprites are also more difficult to line up for sex scenes, which is kind of a big issue for hentai games.



Anyways, I guess my point is, if you guys think you could make the Flash 3D APIs work, I will gladly give you some 3D models to use for 3D hentai games.

[KiWolfGirl]

You can make any kind of game in Unity it's made for it more than Flash is, especially with 3d. Its true the webplayer doesnt work with chrome because all the browsers want to do away with all old netscape based stuff. But they are working on a new webplayer that uses current plugins to play, hopefully it comes soon since newgrounds also started letting people put up unity games. Also the model is adorable ^_^

[AcetheSuperVillain]

Well, like I said, I've tried unity, I don't care for it. Basically, my problem is that if you don't want to make the kind of game that Unity thinks you want to make, you're still stuck building most of your own game engine from scratch while having to tip-toe around the features that you don't want, i.e. physics. Theoretically, with Flash 3D you still have build your game engine from scratch, except if it's a brawler game, I already have an AS3 brawler engine, and I get a nice little SWF file that everybody knows what to do with, and not a windows executable that warns you the developer is unknown or a webplayer that doesn't work on one of the most popular search engines.

Also, the story I've heard is that the Unity Webplayer is totes dead. It sounds like the WebGL they're going to replace it with will be worse, although they're using a bunch of terms that are clean over my head. I could be willing to give it a try if Flash 3D is too impossible, but I have my doubts about it.

[KiWolfGirl]

You really want to be building the game you want without all the unity premade stuff anyway, i think. Not using the unity physics and making your own is the same process as it is in flash, ive done both lots of times. They've been trying to kill flash just like they did to the unity web player, saying HTML5 will replace it and that was worse. Same situation they want to make everything work on dumb little tablet PCs so everyone can walk around coffee shops looking at the same stuff while we have to use newer and less capable deployments just because theyre newer :/

[Matpneumatos]

Well, you're right, kind of, because you can make almost any game you want in Unity, but you'll have to code pretty much anything you need, i'm working on a game called "Las Diosas" which is a lot like Smash Bros, but with naked girls and Unity has been a prefect tool for that kind of game, anyway, i'm sure you already decided not to use Unity, but still i just posted this because i might be able to help you with Unity, i'm also currently building my game for WebGL so i can upload it to newgrounds, and you're right, WebGL is yet not as good as the old Unity web player, but it works, so it really is a nice tool to use for 3D games if you can program what you want. Also i love your 3D models

[VintageBass]

Well if this does end up being a Unity game, I'm going to be moving this over to the Non-Flash section because... well, it's not Flash

Also, that last gif just sent my mind into the gutter...

[AcetheSuperVillain]

So the main thing I tried to program with Unity was a Golden Axe style brawler game with lateral movement, and I constantly felt like I was tripping over some kind of built-in Unity system that was designed to something 80% exactly what I wanted to do, but just not close enough so that I still need to build something from scratch or cancel out something that Unity was doing behind the scenes. Unity's physics is great if you want to make a platformer like Las Diosas, but if you want to make physics based on things getting sent flying by attacks, Unity physics are too unpredictable and you need to make your own, which is an extra pain in the ass when sometimes Unity physics come back to life all of a sudden.

Flash actually is designed to do 3D, they just didn't make a big deal out of it. You can see how far I got with Alternativa here: http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/6b4 ... e844d4e6f9 Press F to jump, D and S to attack. Majokko character has an incomplete moveset, but you can test out her appearance. So this is not me saying "I'll bet Flash could make a good 3D game". I know Flash can make a good 3D game. It's just that I can't without help.

But @Matpneumatos, I might take you up on a Unity game if nobody wants to touch Flash, but at the moment, I'd still rather make prerendered Flash than full 3D Unity.

[Matpneumatos]

Sounds good, i'm a fan of 3D games, and if flash can make a good 3D game that's just great, i'm looking forward to see what you can make with any tool you choose, also my game is not only a platformer, it's similar to the subspace emissary from Smash Bros Brawl, which has fighting elements and some platformer elements, but i always have control of Unity physics through my code bacause i don't really want a realistic behaviour as Smash Bros is anything but realistic, anyway, best of luck!

[KiWolfGirl]

Ooooh i love beat em ups. Yeah i turned off the unity physics for the one i worked on. I made one in flash and almost made one in unity, i used the same logic for the physics in both. The only difference is in flash you have to fake the 3d depth but its actually there in unity.

[TeaCup]

If you do decide to go with Unity, I would love to help. I'm quite experienced with Unity and I've just started looking for a new project since my last one fell through.

I like writing anything I need, I prefer to have the extra control that allows.

[KnightOf1]

Most certainly has some pretty good potential.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

Well, I may be willing to accept a Unity3D offer soon. I've been trying to finish up my adventure game idea and UGH programming on my own sucks. It's much more fun to draw porn.

For those who would wish to do 3D game, what kind of games would you like to do? Personally, I like beat 'em ups and racing games, but these may not be the best genres for hentai. I don't usually like platformer games, but some of the hentai platformers are alright.

[Matpneumatos]

Well, I may be willing to accept a Unity3D offer soon. I've been trying to finish up my adventure game idea and UGH programming on my own sucks. It's much more fun to draw porn.

For those who would wish to do 3D game, what kind of games would you like to do? Personally, I like beat 'em ups and racing games, but these may not be the best genres for hentai. I don't usually like platformer games, but some of the hentai platformers are alright.

Well, i might be able to help with a beat'em up, i already have some experience thanks to my project "Las Diosas" and maybe i could try with a regular beat'em up, adding porn to these kind of games is kind of difficult, but you could always try with some concepts like sex gives you experience, or you lose if your character is raped but i dont' like to reward the player with porn for losing, a platforming game is the easiest choice, but it is also kind of boring, and i have never tried to make a racing game.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

Do you know the game River City Ransom? If not, here's the original and the remake. RCR lets you wander back and forth across the map more like an RPG. You get money for beating up gangs and then spend it in shops to get stat boosts or healing items. There could be porn scenes to discover while wandering the map, or you could spend your thug money on girlfriends like a dating sim. Also there's another brawler in development here where you regain health by initiating sexual grapples, which I thought was very clever. So most of the time, you are just fighting, but once in a while, you have to switch things up and get a little sex scene out of it. Could also do something sexy to charge up a limit break kind of attack, or as a special timing attack or finishing move.

And RCR is a goody-two-shoes Nintendo game, we could make a game about doing bad things like beating up dudes and fucking their girlfriends, or kidnapping women. That could work with a lot of different themes like pirates or vikings or mongols or fantasy or space adventure or sword & sorcery instead of urban. My most recent 3D bases are anthro-characters so it could also be something like lions "hunting" zebras and then fucking them. (Actually, I had an idea to do a film noir with anthros about the last living quagga, and someone is trying to kill you but you don't know who and you try to figure it out, stay alive and orchestrate your revenge. I don't have any more detailed ideas about the plot than that, just thought I'd put it out there. I didn't plan it to be pornographic, but it could be, like those HBO adventure shows with lots of sex and drama. Could do a different extinct animal like a thylacine or carolina parakeet, for different geography, African film noir seems a little weird.)



To make racing games, I imagine it shouldn't be all that hard. Track physics are simple enough and basically built into Unity (notwithstanding the previous conversation about built-in physics) so it's mainly a matter of AI. I feel like you can break a racing AI down into two main parts. First, the AI should follow the track, and more specifically, should follow the best "racing line" the shortest distance around the loop. Second, the AI should respond to live action, like avoid hazards or other racers, or grab power ups that show up. If you imagine the track as completely linear, say like a scrolling shooter, it's easy enough to program an AI that would move closer to good things and away from bad things. So the final racing AI would be a combination of these two systems, move around a circular track and respond to live action by moving left or right along the track. After that, maybe some simple strategy based on game mechanics, like when to use items or bash other drivers or how to drift. Unity also has a built-in path-finding engine, which might be useful.

It's also conceivable to just skip the racing AI. Races could be solo events, like someone says "I'll only fuck the best racers. Beat my time of 2:55 around Clam Canyon and I'll show you some lovin'." Or it could be more like an avoider game, where you are forced to go fast and the point is to avoid hazards. I also feel like a racing game engine would not be too far removed from a 3D Sonic the Hedgehog game.

Pornifying racing game is another story. Probably would be the same deal as pornifying beat 'em ups, race and then get rewarded with porn, or do something sexual to repair yourself or gain boost or something. Maybe you can masturbate to charge up a turbo boost, but your controls lock while doing this. Or maybe you're on a date with your girlfriend in the car and she wants driving sex but a rival driver shows up and you need to beat him in an impromptu race, so the player needs to balance attention between racing and sexual activity. A novel theme could lead to more ideas, like if you're racing on skis or hoverboards or yachts instead of cars.

[Matpneumatos]

I liked the concept of RCR even though i've never heard of it, which is weird, i thought i was an expert when it comes to NES games, turns out i'm not. Anyway, i like the idea of having a beat' em up that lets you go back to previous levels, i have implemented that before, i just haven't released anything like that yet, and it could be a great concept for a porn game, and i had some plans for a racing game, but it had no vehicles, it was similar to a 3D Sonic game but not as fast, so it had furry girls and some human girls racing on foot, girls like an anthro tigress or a mare, because i once saw an image of epona from Zelda ocarina of time and Link using a carrot as a dildo on her, and since carrots make her go faster i thought it was a good idea using some sort of dildo as a turbo or something like that, but it would still need some AI and Artificial intelligence is one of my weakest points at the moment, and i think it would be easier to make some AI for a Beat 'em up, since i have done it before.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

I liked the concept of RCR even though i've never heard of it, which is weird, i thought i was an expert when it comes to NES games, turns out i'm not. Anyway, i like the idea of having a beat' em up that lets you go back to previous levels, i have implemented that before, i just haven't released anything like that yet, and it could be a great concept for a porn game, and i had some plans for a racing game, but it had no vehicles, it was similar to a 3D Sonic game but not as fast, so it had furry girls and some human girls racing on foot, girls like an anthro tigress or a mare, because i once saw an image of epona from Zelda ocarina of time and Link using a carrot as a dildo on her, and since carrots make her go faster i thought it was a good idea using some sort of dildo as a turbo or something like that, but it would still need some AI and Artificial intelligence is one of my weakest points at the moment, and i think it would be easier to make some AI for a Beat 'em up, since i have done it before.

Actually, I've made AI for many brawler games and I feel like my AI is very good, so if you feel AI is a weakness of yours, it would be better to use mine. The method is not really a trade secret or anything, though I'm always surprised at how bad other people's brawler AI can be, so I'll share it here for everyone.



The main movement engine is divided into 4 phases. Phase 1 is for when the fighter is the farthest distance away from its target. During phase 1, the fighter moves towards the exact x,y coordinate of the target. During phase 1, the current target constantly updates to the closest possible target if there are multiple opponents. Generally the AI starts in phase 1 and returns to phase 1 if the target becomes too distant.

Once the fighter gets closer to a target, it switches to phase 2. Phase 2 commits to moving towards a specific target. Phase 2 calculates a randomized offset point near the target for the fighter to move towards. The amount of randomization depends on the character, for example, a character with long range attacks should try to keep its y offset pretty close to the target's real y position, since it's likely to be able to hit the target before the target can hit it, but if the fighter has short range attacks, it should try to stay out of the target's lateral attack range until it gets close. Once the offset point has been calculated, the fighter switches to phase 3, which moves toward the offset point. In the original version, the offset is determined by the distance to the target. For example, if the fighter is already on the left side of the target, the offset point will be on the left side. If the target is very close to the fighter (which may happen when the AI goes to phase 2 after an attack) the offset can be either in front of or behind the target or "above" or "below" in the y axis. This makes the AI look like it's dodging attacks, or permits the AI to try and circle around to the rear of the player. Phase 2 lasts for only one moment, then switches to phase 3.

Phase 3 moves towards the offset point established by phase 2. They are separated so that the AI is not creating new offset points constantly. Phase 3 updates the offset point to account for movement of the target, so it will move to target.x+offset.x; target.y+offset.y and not to an absolute x,y coordinate. If the AI character has access to dash abilities, it will use them if appropriate. Typically, if the target+offset is more than a certain distance away and within a cone reachable by dashing, the AI will dash to reach it. Games with the "hopping" mechanic would also use hops to reach target+offset if appropriate. For games with jumping, there is a jump timer. While the character is on the ground, the jump timer counts down. If it's zero, the AI will jump in a direction that takes it closer to target+offset.

One the fighter reaches a certain distance away from target+offset (not target), it will switch to phase 4. Phase 4 will attempt to move toward a set offset point based on the fighter's available attacks. For example, a character with a short weapon like a knife would move very close to the target, while a character with a long weapon like a spear would try to keep some distance. However, the AI should not try to move exactly to target.x,target.y unless it has some kind of special contact-attack or an attack centered on itself, such as a spinning attack.

In general, the AI attacks opportunistically and will initiate an attack any time there is something in its range. There are certain situations where this is not desirable, such as if the AI should get to a special position to use a super move, but it's the best choice for most situations. Generally, you do not want to limit the AI to attacking during a specific phase, because it may get stuck in a particular phase and savvy players will exploit this behavior. Sometimes, it's more beneficial to keep pressing the attack from the current position, but sometimes it's better to reset the position and try again, but I've never felt like calculating exactly when or why for the AI, so after an attack completes, the fighter switches to phase 2 or phase 4 with a 50% chance of either.

In some of my games, there is a phase 5 where the AI runs away from the player.

For some characters, you need the AI to work differently, like the shooter robots from Super Defense Force and Space Amazon Brawler try to stay away from their targets. This is usually achievable by giving them very distance offset values during phase 2 and phase 4, but they need a little extra help when they get too close to the edge. In Rune Star, zombies and giant robots will be in phase 4 at all times, which gives them a little extra flavor and makes them a little easier to fight since they also have extra armor.



You may have noticed that the ASV Brawler AI cannot actually "see" you or what you are doing, so it has no capacity to intelligently dodge attacks. Nonetheless, it can be difficult to hit sometimes.



You can sample the most recent version of the ASV Brawler AI here: http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/6b4 ... e844d4e6f9 "Duel: Perfect Rival" is the AI without any bonuses or penalties, exactly the same stats as the player but with the fake reaction time turned off. The duels before it have worse stats, the duels after it have super powers, like Psion always has maximum energy. The most recent complete game to use the ASV Brawler AI is FireArm: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/602455 The original game to use the ASV Brawler AI is Rune Star: http://bluecloak.net/ace/RUNESTARDownload.html which is not a flash game, you have to download it to play. The Rune Star exe did not work on newer versions of windows for a long time, but, be still my heart, it totally works on Windows 10!

[AcetheSuperVillain]

Actually, finding Rune Star reminded me of another potential porn ploy for beat 'em ups. In Rune Star NPC enemies have a BREAK condition and a BREAK effect. For example, if you hit the standard soldier just as it attacks, you will knock the weapon out of their hand, causing them to run away or have to fight barefisted. BREAK can sometimes cancel a special ability, like biodragons can heal their HP and cyberdragons can teleport, but if you BREAK them, they lose those abilities. The idea of Rune Star was to incorporate the cleverness of platformer or zelda style enemies, where you have to figure out a special condition to defeat them, but still allow you to fall back on classic beat 'em up tactics if necessary. For porn, a BREAK condition could allow you to initiate a sexual encounter with an enemy, but still allow you to beat an enemy normally if you lack the time or skill. I think it would probably be ideal to save sexual encounters to a gallery after they are initiated, so players can enjoy them without a battle raging around them later. However, the BREAK system was a major pain in the ass both to program and conceptualize, so it wouldn't be my first choice of pornification.

Another idea is that maybe you could use sex to "capture" enemies, kinda like catching pokemon. As with the BREAK system, you normally don't have to worry about doing something special, but if you encounter someone you really want, you can fuck them instead of fight them. Since I probably don't want to draw or program 150 beat 'em up characters, such a system would either need randomized characters, like the brothel sim games, or a combat system where you need to constantly replace characters. One beat 'em up plan I've wanted to try is to have you run around in big teams, like Final Fantasy or Star Ocean, and each character has their own number of extra lives. Once a character's extra lives runs out, they are dead, and you have to go find a new buddy to replace them. For such a system, there should also be a way to extend the extra lives of a character, like stealing lives from other characters, or spending upgrade points or money, or finding rare extra life items.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

I have been wanting to experiment with randomized faces using cartoony textures, and I've been trying new ways to do an anthro face, because I don't like the way mine works from the front. The result is this:

Left side is the "base", right side is a hair and ear style added. Near the top left shows the "canvases" onto which the eyes and mouth can be drawn. In a game context, the canvases could even be animated by changing the image over time. In a couple of the right side examples, the eyes are mirrored to make her look a different direction. Unfortunately, it's still difficult to make things look great from every angle.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

So I tried to make a face that looks more like the way I draw instead of straight-up sonic style. Not sure if I like it any better, I could probably stand to experiment more. Also a fuzzier looking material instead of toon. Not sure if that's relevant, since I don't know if there's a fuzzy shader in Unity. That's one of the weird things about doing 3D instead of drawing, I don't actually know what the 3D model is going to look like in the end.

[Matpneumatos]

Hi! sorry for the late reply, i was kind of busy because my school semester just begun. So you decided to go for a beat'em up game then? also thanks for sharing that AI method you're using on your games, i haven't tried with something like that because my game was completely 2D so every enemy was on the same plane.

And yes there are fuzzy shaders for Unity, but i've never tried them, most of them are paid content, i found a free one that didn't work, maybe because it was too old, you could program your own, but i'm not a shader programmer