Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Screwbucket » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:41 am

GoRepeat Wrote:Watch the tones in this thread; you can disagree but don't be attacking each other personally over a difference of opinion on a porn game. Everyone get back to the hug factory or else I will lock the thread and bury it somewhere, cuz GoRepeat is 24% honey badger!


Only 24%? I'm disappointed. Myron next door is 28% honey badger! Oy, Go Repeat! What am I to tell the rest of the internet when their forum mods are 30% honey badger?! Oy vey, I just do not know!

Seriously though. All drama aside, REGARDLESS of which side is at fault, I think there's one major take away here.

Contracts are REALLY fucking important and potentially dangerous if handled improperly. Even if you were to to proclaim that H-Bomb was totally in the right on everything ethically, it's hard to argue that his management skills as it applies to running a professional team are probably not top notch if he'd be willing to allow someone on his team to own THAT much of it. That alone gives me some grounds to believe that the management of the game was poor to begin with if the same guy managing the team couldn't recognize the danger in letting an artist keep all rights to the assets he makes for the game.

On top of that, I have to agree with something that was said a while ago and also from the perspective of a programmer. It's highly unlikely that S-Purple was slowing down the project to that level.

At the core of every game is mainly math and logic. The only aspect of game programming that S-Bomb being slow would have likely slowed down on his own would be code related to animation be it the animation itself or two or more rigs interacting with one another.

While that might seem like a lot, I think anyone who has made a video game knows that for every seemingly simple game there's an endless slew of various game assets that exist purely to allow the game to run.

Here's an example. Let's say they wanted to implement a feature to the game where you could trade various owned animals with another farm. The animal offered would have a designated value and would be random in terms of what the physical model was. You could literally implement that entire feature with just .jpg image stand ins while still maintaining the core functionality. Would it look good? No, but this wasn't a finished product. In the real world, you get everything you can possibly get done while other assets are being made (be it sound or animation) and pause to shove that shit in before moving on. You practically have to do this because programming can be just as slow if not even slower than creating animations depending on what you're making and, if you aren't working on SOMETHING, you are wasting valuable development time down the line.

If it is true that most of the final patches to the game were mainly bug fixes? That tells me that either H-Bomb wasn't working on pure functionality additions and only starting them when he had every asset made for said functionality, or alternatively he WAS working on functionality improvements but wasn't putting them in game until the assets were made which could easily give the illusion to onlookers that little progress was being made. The latter would be especially stupid because although the community might not be happy for a screen with just a few buttons and a troll face, they aren't paying for the finished game. They're paying to both support development and (potentially) get access to chunks of the game as they become available. If you structure every release purely around making it player friendly, you're going to slow down development.

BUT! That's just my speculation. If nothing else, I'm more so convinced that I think all parties involved learned a valuable lesson about contracts. Nobody but the top manager should be able to flip the table and take their toys home with them.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Lucky777 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:51 pm

Screwbucket Wrote:
Seriously though. All drama aside, REGARDLESS of which side is at fault, I think there's one major take away here.

Contracts are REALLY fucking important and potentially dangerous if handled improperly.

[...]

Even if you were to to proclaim that H-Bomb was totally in the right on everything ethically, it's hard to argue that his management skills as it applies to running a professional team are probably not top notch if he'd be willing to allow someone on his team to own THAT much of it. That alone gives me some grounds to believe that the management of the game was poor to begin with if the same guy managing the team couldn't recognize the danger in letting an artist keep all rights to the assets he makes for the game.

[...]

BUT! That's just my speculation. If nothing else, I'm more so convinced that I think all parties involved learned a valuable lesson about contracts. Nobody but the top manager should be able to flip the table and take their toys home with them.


Agreed; a contract that lets the artist prevent the man he's working for from using his art assets seems to favour the artist a bit much.
But a contract that lets the man he's working for prevent the artist from using specific art assets elsewhere, as is usually done, seems to prejudice the artist too much.
I'd be all for a contract that lets the artist use his assets for whatever he wants, but does not permit the artist to prevent his boss from using certain specific assets.

From the world of text porn, an example might be the arrangement that I recall Fenoxo having with his writers during the later parts of CoC's creation.

Writers retained ownership of their work and characters submitted to Fenoxo, but within the context of the game and sequels Fen's control overrode theirs.

It's not a completely and precisely accurate example because characters and scenes submitted to Fen were donated to him, not bought by him.

But in terms of freedom to use and profit from the IP, it still shows what I'd consider to be the ideal balance between creator and employer.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby WonderGamer » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:14 am

Provided said artist was being paid for his work, he can't say that the developer can't use art that has already been paid for. Under legal standards, he could retaliate with a lawsuit if art that was not paid for was used by the developer, however. Part of the problem with partnerships is that if one side of it defaults, the other usually ends up having to close shop & I've seen this happen all too many times (being a part of one business where one side of the partnership was stealing income from the business of the other, being located in the same shop)...

SHORT VERSION:
The artist can make it a point that the developer will be sued for unpaid art used in the game, but what's already paid for he has no right to be saying he can't use it & could be taking to court himself if he starts slandering the developer as a result of it.

ADDITIONAL NOTE:
The fact that this is an adult game may put a damper on ANYBODY taking ANYONE to court, particularly if there are underage-looking characters in the game & I know one trait in the game that might make them want to deter taking ANY legal action on it, but that doesn't change the fact that there was some corrupt business arrangements (or lack thereof) that needs to be dealt with.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby archer_gilgamesh » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:19 am

WonderGamer Wrote:The fact that this is an adult game may put a damper on ANYBODY taking ANYONE to court, particularly if there are underage-looking characters in the game & I know one trait in the game that might make them want to deter taking ANY legal action on it, but that doesn't change the fact that there was some corrupt business arrangements (or lack thereof) that needs to be dealt with.

Is that one trait you speak of the blatant bestiality you see throughout the whole game?
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby ValturNaa » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:02 am

I think he means neoteny. Those monsters were blatantly underage in appearance.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby WonderGamer » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:11 pm

ValturNaa Wrote:I think he means neoteny. Those monsters were blatantly underage in appearance.

Correct. This appears to have been a request of a contributor to the game through payment, where the developer was adding suggested content based on those that was helping fund production of it. Which brings to light the fact that all those that have paid into the game have unfortunately been screwed when the project was dropped & could technically go after the developer with their own lawsuits :shock:
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby WonderGamer » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:35 am

So I've read through some of the statement as to what killed off this game, however honestly I think I'd like to hear S-Purple's side of it. I'm not saying I'm going to believe it without a doubt, but the truth tends to be somewhere in between the statement of the two apposing sides. So far all I've been able to find online is that it's a game called Cloud Meadow & with near ripoff mechanics of Breeding Season, but it's not a full ripoff & has other mechanics added to it. Of course I can't find anything where S-Purple is denying the allegations (he just seems to be avoiding the topic) & I think it's pretty obvious he stole a lot of the code from Breeding Season, so I fully believe H-Bomb has a good lawsuit against him, possibly for even more than he was paid while he was working on it (at least for what he was paid while he was supposed to be working on it, if not beyond it since it seems a lot of the code was stolen & H-Bomb could get punitive damages).

I found some threads on the Fenoxo forums (site known most for Corruption of Champions) regarding the game S-Purple is putting out, I think H-Bomb should make it a point to get a public page up regarding the game & get it in the search engines so people can see just what a crook he is. Like I said, it's not exactly a clone, but it's obvious that a good portion of Breeding Season was stolen to advance that project & I think H-Bomb should go after him with a lawsuit, because this isn't any different from decompiling an existing game, changing the name of it & re-releasing it as a new game & different owner; one example in particular that I can name would be Motor Rock. It is possible S-Purple could still get income on Cloud Meadow if he continues building on it, but seeing as a lot of the code was stolen from this one, he needs to pay the developer of it (H-Bomb), then it will be his decision as to whether he's wants to continue it or not. He also has a Patreon page up on the game, I would suggest H-Bomb report the game for copyright infringement to Patreon so they take it down & he loses all funds that have been put into it (wouldn't be the first time I've seen this happen either, of course it was KickStarter last time I saw it happen).

I think it is very likely H-Bomb could continue the project after the lawsuit has rolled over, however he'd have to dump all graphics that was put into it by S-Purple to avoid a future counter-suit. If the art that S-Purple contributed to the game is no longer in it because he defaulted on the contract, this will hold a higher standing in court to H-Bomb's cause & considering it will take time to redo the graphics for the game, that also gives further standing for punitive damages.

EDIT: If H-Bomb wishes to start a public boycott against S-Purple's project Cloud Meadow, I will offer hosting of it on my personal site (provided it don't have images with nudity in it, as my host won't allow it; I already have one up on the develpers of Virtual Woman). I have a number of public boycotts on my personal site already, as well as negative reviews & blacklists, so considering I'm a bit pissed off that Breeding Season crashed & burned due to double-crossing cyber-theft, I will do what I can to get the word out there & hopefully deter funds going into the Patreon page for Cloud Meadow.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby evildumdum » Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:09 am

S-Purple has a blog post about it detailing his side of the story. As always it's best to read between the lines. My opinion is that at least S-purple worked on the project, even if he was a bit douchey at the end. H-Bomb was consistently lazy the whole time.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby WonderGamer » Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:25 am

evildumdum Wrote:S-Purple has a blog post about it detailing his side of the story. As always it's best to read between the lines. My opinion is that at least S-purple worked on the project, even if he was a bit douchey at the end. H-Bomb was consistently lazy the whole time.

"In between the lines" my belief would be that the project was getting drug out by H-Bomb & S-Purple wanted to take his own route with the game because it was taking too long for H-Bomb to get out a new version. I think calling H-Bomb "lazy" would be exaggerating the truth, as none of us really know what was going on in his life that may have prevented him from getting work done on it (it did have very complex mechanics; get a variable wrong & potentially the entire game would stop working at any given time in the game). In any case I expect S-Purple didn't bother to discuss it with H-Bomb & took the initiative without notice; of course I tried to find a statement in a Google search, I ended up finding that thread on the Fenoxo forums instead (if you could PM me a link to the blog you're telling me about, I would appreciate it so I could verify it for myself).
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby evildumdum » Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:49 am

http://s-purple.tumblr.com/post/1474842 ... ide-of-the

Again, not a completely honest version of events. But through conjuncture and looking at what actually happened in terms of updates it gives a good picture of what was happening in the team. Art was the only thing updated for over a year. As a coder i can confirm that H-Bombs excuses were bullshit. Had he put even a little effort in the game would have progressed much faster. I suspect S-purple wasn't much better. Vanilly seemed to be doing most of the work towards the end.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby WonderGamer » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:49 pm

evildumdum Wrote:http://s-purple.tumblr.com/post/147484294391/breeding-seasons-cancelation-my-side-of-the

Again, not a completely honest version of events. But through conjuncture and looking at what actually happened in terms of updates it gives a good picture of what was happening in the team. Art was the only thing updated for over a year. As a coder i can confirm that H-Bombs excuses were bullshit. Had he put even a little effort in the game would have progressed much faster. I suspect S-purple wasn't much better. Vanilly seemed to be doing most of the work towards the end.

Thanks for the link, although I've been attempting to avoid posting links regarding this ripoff project called Cloud Meadow, so this is why I asked for a private link.

In any case, I've already heard about the slow-going in development of Breeding Season from other users, so it was something I was already aware of. I'm half-tempted to believe S-Purple knew this & used it to his advantage to grab what code he could before others noticed & use it in his own game (of course S-Purple is known for animations, not games, so I don't think he'll succeed unless he can get somebody who can manipulate large chunks of complex code to avoid crashing the whole damn thing), of course as I stated before, it could be he joined realizing the same thing others in the team had already decided & they were already on their way out. The one thing however that S-Purple seems to be avoiding answering is the fact that he put a game with similar (if not the same) mechanics & from the looks of it, it has been running for a while before the statement from H-Bomb was even released, so unlike the others in the Breeding Season team, H-Bomb is correct in the matter that bringing S-Purple on was the worst thing he could have done, because S-Purple got a HUGE lead in Cloud Meadow by stealing the clode from Breeding Season, which is where I fully expect that if the art were removed, Breeding Season could continue being developed & S-Purple would have to pay back EVERYTHING he was paid towards the game, including punitive damages as it's going to take time to remove & replace them. I also noticed a statement on his blog stating "Criminal sabotage", which I think is very likely, but would have to be proven, which I think is possible if the creation pages for Cloud Meadow (which the host can be subpoenaed for) were to be compared to when it became apparent that things were arry; if S-Purple is conniving enough to realize what I think he did, he put his art in the game, then dropped a bombshell on H-Bomb stating that if he continued the game, he would be sued since it had S-Purple's art in it, which the statements of H-Bomb in his blog pretty well imply was the case & doesn't get to be more sabotage than that.

Long story short, I can't say either one of them are being completely honest, but I think H-Bomb is giving more believable information than S-Purple is (based on the game that S-Purple put out) & the statements that H-Bomb gave about believing he was going to be sued if he continued the project makes me think that S-Purple had this planned from the beginning. I'm going to be honest, I have an account on Hentai Foundry & I believe I have S-Purple down as a favorite artist; I went on there before seeing your response & was intending on removing him as a favorite artist & blocking him after causing this game to crash & burn (maybe not to the degree that H-Bomb is stating it is, but the thing that is certain is that S-Purple definitely took advantage of the situation, regardless of whether that was his original intentions or not).
Last edited by WonderGamer on Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Abelius » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:53 pm

This story makes a good case study about how making games is a god dammed hard thing to do when more than one person is involved... :|

I'm making one... a moderately big one. And it was only me and an illustrator friend of mine for some time... then my pal abandoned the boat, no hard feelings involved, but it left me without an art source.

However... not even for a SINGLE second I considered the possibility of trying to find a new partner. If it was complex enough to communicate with my friend and reach some decisions about how we were doing the thing, just imagine how hellish would be to share the burden with a total unknown guy/gal around the world.

So now I am in 'commission world'. And it sucks, trust me... I've been waiting almost three weeks now for a character design. And it's MY money there because I didn't launched the thing yet. So you could imagine that I am pretty impatient atm.

That said, when I read that some people were crowdfunding their games for five figures a month, and they don't even updated the thing for a year... well, I don't know if to laugh or to cry. How in earth does patrons put up with that!? It's pretty amazing, you know... :roll:
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby ValturNaa » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:01 pm

@Abelius believe it or not, working with multiple people can actually be easier than just working with one. Especially if you have face to face time or some internet equivalent (I find I love a skype or facebook group chat or a dedicated chat room for this) so that you can communicate quickly and efficiently. With a round table type of discussion, hashing out ideas and getting feedback on art or engine mechanics can be fast, easy, and very effective. I've joined two such teams now, first Pokemon Pink and then BS Revival, and I can tell you that in both cases, the synergy that can come from numerous people working toward the same goal can leave you a little giddy.

But you have to be professional about it. No one person on the project is all-important. Everyone has to pull their weight or face the prospect of being replaced, and contracts have to be clear and businesslike. Otherwise you get what happened to BS. H-Bomb lost interest and stopped leading, which paved the way for S-Purple to rip him off, and anyone on the team who was just working in their little corner without looking up got pissed on. I'm sure there was a lot of dissatisfaction in the ranks before shit hit the fan. It takes a leader to lead the way and H-Bomb was no leader. People can say all they want to about him getting the shaft in this whole fiasco but I say he started it by not being the leader the team needed. S-Purple just took advantage of a very unprofessional contract which H-Bomb had to approve.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Abelius » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

@ValturNaa

Wise words there my friend...

The way you describe your workflow is like if you guys were an actual indie company. And yes, being so professional about project management I bet you could get things done very quickly for sure. And reading you I believe that in your case you actually work better that way, and it must be a pleasure to be in a brainstorming session with you and your team.

But... well, one of the things I think it's also important is to know one's strengths and weaknesses. And in my case I could say that my main strength AND weakness is to be a complete and absolute maniac. I mean, when it comes to play the role of game designer I'm a bitch, put plainly. If I visualize something then that something is what is going to be done. Period.

Aaaand then I proceed to work my ass 24/7 to do make it happen.

So, being the dictator I am, as a leader I'd leave much to be desired really... Right now I'm filling the role of designer, developer, writer and animator. And I very much regret that I can't draw because I'd also do that if I could, even if I was to spend even more time to do it.

Think about me like Gollum... "My precious... it's mine! All mine!!" :roll:
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby evildumdum » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:11 pm

We are a proper indie company, though we haven't launched the game yet. CodeBunny Studio's should launch at some point in the near future, but not just yet. Its more of a democracy than anything, each member has as much influence as they need to get thier job done. We had a problem with over-reaching at one point but that has been solved and it's pretty smooth now.

As for your position, it's not the best but you have two things working in your favour. You recognise the flaw or a dictatorship style so at least you won't go out of control, and you are willing to work hard. Good luck fella.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Abelius » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:13 pm

evildumdum Wrote:We are a proper indie company...

Oh, that explains everything then. ;)

Best of luck to you too. We can't have such a thing as 'enough' porn games! :lol:
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Dreday » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:51 am

Hi,

I know that will seem super weird but I've just discovered the game recently. I know the game has been abandoned a while ago but it's still a very interesting game for those who never played it yet. So, I have a simple problem, I was wondering if it was normal that the last versions released didn't have any sound. I've read a good part of this thread, I still can't find someone mentioning it, so maybe something is wrong with me. Also apparently the very first version did have some sound as it's said in the very first posts of this thread, and I'm surprised that at this state of the development the game didn't have any sound yet.

Thank you for your help.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby ValturNaa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:04 pm

Yes, the soundlessness is normal. Whoever did the early sounds either left or stopped working on them. I'm not sure why but maybe the under-levels of development took precedence. There were also a lot fewer animations in the later builds after S Purple decided to redo the entire art scheme.
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby Rauldelano » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:26 am

Posting so that I remember to come back here and give this one a better review when I have time
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Re: Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

Postby WonderGamer » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:29 pm

I located something on comdotgame.com called Malicia! Season's Breeding using very similar mechanics to Breeding Season. Thought I'd point it out, seeing as it looks like somebody has already taken a wack at trying to recreate the game (it's not a direct duplicate, but it was definitely inspired Breeding Season).

https://www.comdotgame.com/play/malicia ... s-breeding

NOTE: This is another site that rips off others like Funny Games; some developers from these forums may find their games on there also. The site also censors comments to prevent posts that would point out the original sites they were taken from. Once thing I have noticed with this site over Funny Games however is that it's better with grabbing all files relevant to the game & doesn't break the game due to missing files. Also it's one of the few that allows fullscreen of flash apps & perhaps the only one I've seen that allows reloading those apps without reloading the page. They did recently add loading ads & popups however, so it's becoming more of a hassle to use...
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