Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby HartistaPipebomb » Fri May 24, 2013 2:50 am

stellated Wrote:I think it is both healthy and welcome for people to discuss what they are comfortable and uncomfortable with. Neoteny doesn't sit well for me either because I do not like the sexualization of minors, and sexualizing the body of a child is indirectly (or rather directly depending on whom you ask) sexualizing minors. Would it appeal to pedophiles? Yes. There is no amount of mental gymnastics that can get around the fact that no matter how you contextualize underaged bodies there is still that connection with pedophilia. It is important to discuss that connection and soundly reject pedophilia because no one with a healthy sexuality likes the idea of abusing children. Yes this is an intersection of morality, ethics, and pornography. It happens. If people don't want to hear about the pornographic opinions of other people maybe they shouldn't be participating in a community for pornographic games instead of trying to dismiss people who are trying to participate themselves?

I would feel a lot better about neoteny if HartistaPipebomb put it in the prelude to the game that we as a community reject pedophilia and child abuse.

P.S. This is not the post I wanted to write when I read the latest posts. I guess I'll post that one later :)


Done and done. I think it's important that people realize that we don't condone things like child molestation, sexual abuse, or coerced sex of any kind, and this game is not intended to support or glorify those things at all.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Krios2401 » Fri May 24, 2013 3:55 am

HartistaPipebomb Wrote:
stellated Wrote:I think it is both healthy and welcome for people to discuss what they are comfortable and uncomfortable with. Neoteny doesn't sit well for me either because I do not like the sexualization of minors, and sexualizing the body of a child is indirectly (or rather directly depending on whom you ask) sexualizing minors. Would it appeal to pedophiles? Yes. There is no amount of mental gymnastics that can get around the fact that no matter how you contextualize underaged bodies there is still that connection with pedophilia. It is important to discuss that connection and soundly reject pedophilia because no one with a healthy sexuality likes the idea of abusing children. Yes this is an intersection of morality, ethics, and pornography. It happens. If people don't want to hear about the pornographic opinions of other people maybe they shouldn't be participating in a community for pornographic games instead of trying to dismiss people who are trying to participate themselves?

I would feel a lot better about neoteny if HartistaPipebomb put it in the prelude to the game that we as a community reject pedophilia and child abuse.

P.S. This is not the post I wanted to write when I read the latest posts. I guess I'll post that one later :)


Done and done. I think it's important that people realize that we don't condone things like child molestation, sexual abuse, or coerced sex of any kind, and this game is not intended to support or glorify those things at all.



I honestly thought that went without saying since obviously all the monsters are at a healthy breeding age and not minors as far as their species is concerned. I mean i honestly thought the argument of whether or not it was rape would come up first.

That said i for one am actually looking forward to the neoteny add on. I mean as much as i love cat and dog girls, i'm honestly not a fan of huge breasts and honestly found the harpies to be the most interesting. I'm glad we have the cumshot add on and you added distinct animations for whether or not the breeding resulted in a pregnancy or not, and i'm looking forward to your game getting even better.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby eroticgrapefruit » Fri May 24, 2013 5:43 am

HartistaPipebomb Wrote:Done and done. I think it's important that people realize that we don't condone things like child molestation, sexual abuse, or coerced sex of any kind, and this game is not intended to support or glorify those things at all.


We only condone sex for the purpose of procreation, hence why this is a breeding game! :D
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby chijon72 » Fri May 24, 2013 5:22 pm

Did the hotfix get ninja'd in, or is that still on the way?
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby stellated » Fri May 24, 2013 11:16 pm

I have a proposal for a massive change to the stat system. There are a number of aesthetically unpleasing aspects of the current system, and the gameplay isn't that interesting. Despite a major change to the formula, breeding still feels pretty much the same as the last version. This is evidence of a design problem: The system behind breeding is complicated but you can't really tell what is going on. A good system is one that gives the player interesting decisions and tradeoffs to optimize. Currently, the only decisions to make are which monsters you will breed to get all + breeding modifiers and how to get high level traits without being too incestuous. All the end-game monsters you end up breeding tend to look the same: insanely high stats and they can do everything. Even after a while, by abusing Human Intelligence you can get omni-monsters who have every trait you want to put on them. Aesthetically, the use of floating point makes the numbers look more complicated than they really are, and you get ugly long decimals in places like the STR tooltip. Furthermore, the stats are too granular. 0-1000 is a massive range for stats and it doesn't really matter. STA and FER only matter in 100 point increments, and I don't think anyone cares about the nuance between 97 STR and 100 STR.

My proposal attempts to address these problems by:

A. Make all the numbers involved integers.
B. Reduce their range drastically.
C. Change the stat cap system to force monster differentiation.




First, stats now run from 0-10, integers. This does not impact the granularity of Sta or Fer and the other stats didn't really benefit from being floating point numbers from 0 to 1000.

Second, breeding modifiers now run from -5 to 5, integers. Growth modifiers run from 1-5, integers.

Third, stat caps are removed. Instead, monsters have a LVL (level) stat which can be grown by breeding, and also a LVL Cap. The cap can be raised by breeding and special items, though it cannot be higher than 100. LVL is completely determined by the other stats of a monster. Each point in a monster's stats increases their LVL. Higher stats contribute more. The Nth point in a stat contributes N/2 (rounded up) to the monster's level. This is cumulative. For example, the 10th point in a stat costs 5 points. Having a stat at level 10 contributes 30 to a monster's level.

The motivation for this change is to force breeders to make decisions about their monsters: You want some well-rounded monsters for some tasks, but very specialized monsters for others (like selling them). The max LVL cap of 100 means you can never have a monster that is perfect at everything. A monster with 10 in every stat would be LVL 180.




Stats improve monsters in the following ways:

Every point of STR increases a monster's critical success effect 1.
Every point of DEX reduces the time spent on an action with that monster by 5%.
Every point of STA allows a monster to breed or be harvested an extra time per day (more below).
Every point of WIL gives a monster 1% chance to critically succeed at certain actions.
Every point of CHA increases a monster's worth by 10%.
Every point of FER improves a monster's consumables by 10%.

I switched FER's old attribute because I think eating should be a more strategic decision and being able to eat several times per day makes it more of a grind than anything else.

STR and WIL factor into things like harvesting, breeding, and inheritence. Sometimes monsters can perform exceptionally well at these tasks and STR and WIL decide how. Breeding is described below and what a critical success for that is.




Breeding: Let's say Alice and Bob are monsters and they fuck. How do we determine Alice's stat increase?

Let X be Alice's current LVL.
Let G be Alice's growth modifier for the stat we are considering.
Let B be Bob's breeding modifier for the stat we are considering.
Let S be Bob's current level for the stat we are considering.

We roll a number of 10-sided dice equal to B*(S+1). Every die that rolls (6-G) or higher counts as a success, the others are failures. If we get enough as many successes as X, Alice's Level, she gains a point in that stat provided it does not put her over her limit. Alice and Bob also have a chance to critically succeed. They have a chance to critically succeed equal to the sum of their WIL, and if they succeed they add both their STR's to their number of successes.




If you've ever played a pen and paper RPG these sorts of rolls are familiar. This proposal is incredibly simple compared to the current formula. Instead of treating this aspect of the game as a black box it encourages players to try to squeeze advantages out wherever they can. As a UI enhancement, breeding can produce a % probablity of increasing stats to give a player a direct idea of what their odds of success are and a way to gauge how their decisions improve their chances. Every stat point and modifier has a significant and noticeable difference on the outcome. End game difficulty is built in already: even if you have 10 STR on both monsters and the best breed modifier for a stat, you can't raise it on a monster that is higher than level 70. The sheer difficulty of getting really high stats leaves room for special effects from consumables, traits, and whatever other gameplay mechanics you want to add.

Breeding modifiers are hella important, but growth modifiers are extremely good in this model. It should be very hard to get higher growth mods. It should require special breeding and consumable regimens.




So that's my proposal. It is incomplete because it does not detail inheritence or how consumables affect monster stats. I figured this these are a lot of complicated suggestions already and there's no point in spelling out the whole game if no one likes this idea!
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Oringlas » Sat May 25, 2013 9:13 am

stellated Wrote:A proposal for a system.


As a general rule - the more drastic the change to the inner workings of a program, the greater the number of bugs introduced.

That said, your framework is good enough to hang another game off of, just plug in the Playshapes models, make a few cosmetic changes, and you have a new game! :D

I would name your stats Power, Agility, Endurance, Luck, Desirability, Potency.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Werefrog » Sat May 25, 2013 10:14 am

Too much D&D anyone? I don't mind the current system. I mean, it's not perfect but it's a work in progress. The change to the formula wasn't all that major either. It's pretty much the same except it works as intended.
There are some points I would agree with. Like STA and FER being a bit dumb, breeding modifiers not being very clear on how strong they actually are and all monsters ending up being the same, maybe some more. I don't really get your hatred for floating point though...

Anyway, there are other ways to fix those things. Without requiring huge changes to the current system. And considering how borked it is after just a few changes, I'd say that's pretty much a requirement for any improvements.
As for STA and FER, I see 2 ways. Either you get (value DIV 100) extra actions and a (value MOD 100)% chance for 1 additional extra action or you get (value DIV 100) extra actions and (value MOD 100) carries over to the next day. So that a monster with, for example, 125 STA would have 2 harvest/breeding most of the time but 3 harvest/breeding every 4th day. Altough I'm all for the % chance option.
And monster diversity could be achieved by changing the way stat caps work. For example capping the sum of stat caps to 3000.

Also regarding clarity of the system, I think any system would have to be explained, not everyone plays RPGs. This should be done in the tutorial, which is currently a bit outdated. And I don't think it's a good idea to update it just yet because I expect a lot more changes to come. Maybe someone could compile a post explaining the current game mechanics? Perhaps put together a google doc and link to it from the blog? Or maybe even a wiki?
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby eroticgrapefruit » Sat May 25, 2013 8:19 pm

I like the idea of FER increasing the strength of consumables instead of the max # of times your monster can be fed. I feel like monsters should be able to be fed only once per day and consumables should have an overall greater effect, as it stands right now it's very time consuming to harvest and then feed a monster multiple times to get any noticeable effect.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby stellated » Sat May 25, 2013 9:48 pm

I don't really get your hatred for floating point though...


Mostly these things:

1. Ugly long strings appear in places like the STR tooltip. They could be truncated when displayed, but then why bother having the granularity?
2. Sometimes the game lies to you: 100 STA may or may not be enough for an extra action. This probably could be fixed.
3. Floating point is good for things that require flexible granularity and range, like position in a game world. I do not think the stat sytem benefits from this granularity at all. The system doesn't need to represent 100000000.32 STR as well as 0.00000000009625 STR. Stats do not need granularity nor do they need an extreme range that cannot fit into an integer.
4. I think discrete math makes for more interesting gameplay. In the current system you always incrementally improve your monsters when they breed. In a system like mine, you improve them in discrete steps. The discreteness means that sometimes you succeed and sometimes you fail. The clear division between success and failure creates a more rewarding experience and makes it feel less like a spreadsheet optimization exercise. :P
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby DraconisOminous » Sat May 25, 2013 10:55 pm

stellated Wrote:
I don't really get your hatred for floating point though...


Mostly these things:

1. Ugly long strings appear in places like the STR tooltip. They could be truncated when displayed, but then why bother having the granularity?
2. Sometimes the game lies to you: 100 STA may or may not be enough for an extra action. This probably could be fixed.
3. Floating point is good for things that require flexible granularity and range, like position in a game world. I do not think the stat sytem benefits from this granularity at all. The system doesn't need to represent 100000000.32 STR as well as 0.00000000009625 STR. Stats do not need granularity nor do they need an extreme range that cannot fit into an integer.
4. I think discrete math makes for more interesting gameplay. In the current system you always incrementally improve your monsters when they breed. In a system like mine, you improve them in discrete steps. The discreteness means that sometimes you succeed and sometimes you fail. The clear division between success and failure creates a more rewarding experience and makes it feel less like a spreadsheet optimization exercise. :P


1.First line makes sense, but it really could just be truncated and rounded up.
2.I'm almost positive this is something being rounded up for display, and not actually rounded up for the game (integers and what not, but close to the .9 to infinity and it equaling one. It probably requires the number itself to be rounded up, rather than the display.
3.Okay, yes, it probably wouldn't do to have that last one, (though the first is impossible) but I get what you mean. Maybe just cap it off at the hundredth's or thousandth's place?
4.I actually dislike this one due to having enough issues trying (mid-game, mostly, until you can get true breeding 10 which is hard) to get traits, and discarding bad or not so well done monsters. You would still promote optimization with your method (any method does this) you would simply need more monsters first. Which can get quite redundant mid-game, and late game provides no benefit except for pairing monsters (which requires you to have a male and a female of any stat you want added) and also introduces issues of how you get negatives and positives and might be more frustrating than helpful.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Zoque » Sun May 26, 2013 2:37 am

The current objective system for paying off debt is a little ridged and doesn't (in my opinion) add a lot to the story, I know the games still in alpha so this kind of thing could be held off for awhile but for a "Story" mode where your trying to pay off your parents' past debts having a less of an exponential growth system would add to the pacing, or as an option two it could stay the same (just rounding the numbers a bit going from 1000 to 2251 is a little wonky) and allowing a sort of New Game+ system where you start at day 1/1 with all of your past upgrades, monsters, and gil. Allowing for a more challenge and less of a "well damn" feeling when you get close to but not quite there for a deadline.

Also maybe a calender and events'? Sorry that was just a quick thought .

Love the game, good job so far.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby DraconisOminous » Sun May 26, 2013 5:29 am

Zoque Wrote:The current objective system for paying off debt is a little ridged and doesn't (in my opinion) add a lot to the story, I know the games still in alpha so this kind of thing could be held off for awhile but for a "Story" mode where your trying to pay off your parents' past debts having a less of an exponential growth system would add to the pacing, or as an option two it could stay the same (just rounding the numbers a bit going from 1000 to 2251 is a little wonky) and allowing a sort of New Game+ system where you start at day 1/1 with all of your past upgrades, monsters, and gil. Allowing for a more challenge and less of a "well damn" feeling when you get close to but not quite there for a deadline.

Also maybe a calender and events'? Sorry that was just a quick thought .

Love the game, good job so far.


Sooo. . . Reccetear?

I'm sure there might be more to the story later, but I think the payment should be set in stone a la Reccetear. There will probably be more to it than just payments. Seems like factions have been introduced. The Guild, the Empire, the Elves, and the Huntress/Tribes? The Empire promotes the KIll'em all solution (or at least one sect of it), The Guild promotes harmony with monsters through trade and capture (which is viewed as slavery by the Huntress/Tribes). The Elves promote free sex and slavery by everyone. And the Huntress/Tribes seem to promote a stance of monsters are good, no one should be put into slavery though the also seem to be very hunt oriented in their sex, and only the strong should be chosen over the weak, etc. A near darwinistic approach in that the strong survive, but might does not make right it appears.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Werefrog » Sun May 26, 2013 9:10 am

stellated Wrote:Mostly these things:

1. Ugly long strings appear in places like the STR tooltip. They could be truncated when displayed, but then why bother having the granularity?
2. Sometimes the game lies to you: 100 STA may or may not be enough for an extra action. This probably could be fixed.
3. Floating point is good for things that require flexible granularity and range, like position in a game world. I do not think the stat sytem benefits from this granularity at all. The system doesn't need to represent 100000000.32 STR as well as 0.00000000009625 STR. Stats do not need granularity nor do they need an extreme range that cannot fit into an integer.
4. I think discrete math makes for more interesting gameplay. In the current system you always incrementally improve your monsters when they breed. In a system like mine, you improve them in discrete steps. The discreteness means that sometimes you succeed and sometimes you fail. The clear division between success and failure creates a more rewarding experience and makes it feel less like a spreadsheet optimization exercise. :P


Well 1 and 3 are not really an issue for me, I'm used to working with much uglier numbers and such.
I do agree with 2, though that can be fixed just by rounding the displayed number down.
But I have to disagree with 4. It's already plenty random as it is. You have to be really lucky to get all the breeding modifiers and traits you want (until you get all the good traits at least). And even more so if you want certain colors or hairstyles on top of that. Any more randomness could lead to a frustrating experience I feel.

That said, I don't really find one system better then the other. I admit, I couldn't really find any major advantages of floating point. Except I'd say it's easier to balance. But I just don't think it's a good idea to change something that works (well, for the most part).
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby fristian » Tue May 28, 2013 11:50 am

Would it be possible to have all unlockable traits listed in the 1st post?

And i get the idea you kind of stuck as what to do with the breed scene between 2 dickwolves, 2 Butstalions and dickwolf/butstalion, so instead of a breed scene why not have some different scene, maybe something like 2 dickwolves growling at each other trying to show the other who is more badass or something.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Nikag » Tue May 28, 2013 5:00 pm

Awesome game!
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Zoque » Wed May 29, 2013 1:51 am

DraconisOminous Wrote:Seems like factions have been introduced. The Guild, the Empire, the Elves, and the Huntress/Tribes? The Empire promotes the KIll'em all solution (or at least one sect of it), The Guild promotes harmony with monsters through trade and capture (which is viewed as slavery by the Huntress/Tribes). The Elves promote free sex and slavery by everyone. And the Huntress/Tribes seem to promote a stance of monsters are good, no one should be put into slavery though the also seem to be very hunt oriented in their sex, and only the strong should be chosen over the weak, etc. A near darwinistic approach in that the strong survive, but might does not make right it appears.



As far as Factions go, they could be represented as a color wheel. And could be tied into how clients work. for example adding varying levels of difficulty to the already copper/silver/gold like a rating system so instead of just copper/silver/gold you have:
A rank clients of copper/silver/gold difficulty
B rank clients of copper/silver/gold difficulty ... etc.
Allowing for a steadier increase in difficulty as the months go on, as well as making faction specific choices or perks available. For instance having high rep with the guild lowers the amount you have to pay month to month, while completing elven clients will allow you to higher a helper for breeding/harvesting help making the number of times you can breed/harvest in a day increase. Things like that.
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby DraconisOminous » Wed May 29, 2013 8:15 am

The Guild isn't involved in payments though, that is the EMPIRE. No idea why I decided to capitalize that
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Campfire » Wed May 29, 2013 10:53 am

What an excellent game! It's inspired me to make an account, something I never do!
Anyway, I just thought I might pop on and offer my services, for what it's worth.
Not sure if it's something you're keen on doing, but I've always felt a little music in games makes it that much more fun. If you'd like, I'd be happy to knock up a couple small loops or something for the menus or areas. All for free, of course, they wouldn't be massive so as to keep the size of the game down, but I think it would just add a bit more depth to things. Anyway, let me know what you think! :mrgreen:
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Campfire » Wed May 29, 2013 1:40 pm

fristian Wrote:Would it be possible to have all unlockable traits listed in the 1st post?

And i get the idea you kind of stuck as what to do with the breed scene between 2 dickwolves, 2 Butstalions and dickwolf/butstalion, so instead of a breed scene why not have some different scene, maybe something like 2 dickwolves growling at each other trying to show the other who is more badass or something.


I really like this idea as well, perhaps something to put in when male/male is turned off?
Could be dickwolves growling at each other, and butt stallions fighting like this: http://i.imgur.com/rTOj2HR.jpg

Might I also suggest putting up the previous versions on the blog, just for posterity's sake? I liked having monsters with 999 on all stats without having to work too hard ;)

Some other things I thought of while typing this:
- Someone suggested a debug/cheat mode. Perhaps you could include a career mode plus a free play mode, with no goal or anything?
- Putting the trait list on the first page helps us tell you which traits are causing bugs/which aren't appearing/which are too hard to get etc etc

I realise this is still a work in progress, but you've done a magnificent job so far man, don't give it up!
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Re: Breeding Season: Cum-shot Endings! [Game Update 5/19/201

Postby Calpico » Wed May 29, 2013 3:31 pm

fristian Wrote:And i get the idea you kind of stuck as what to do with the breed scene between 2 dickwolves, 2 Butstalions and dickwolf/butstalion, so instead of a breed scene why not have some different scene, maybe something like 2 dickwolves growling at each other trying to show the other who is more badass or something.


to appeal to people who want to see that type of scene
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