Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby IrrelevantComment » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:14 pm

Bla2alB Wrote:HartistaPipebomb I think you should try to get additional funds for your game via http://offbeatr.com/

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Specifically we DON'T allow projects, rewards, or products to display or mention the following topics:
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:10 pm

Forgotten Aspect: Is there any reason to buy a consumable? Does anyone do it; if so why?

As far as I can tell, there is no benefit to buying in this current version of the game.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby chijon72 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:50 pm

Well, we have established that I play wrong, but I do buy for a few reasons. There is no time cost beyond the hour going to town, sometimes (especially early on) they offer a boost to a stat I don't have high scores in, and it lets me focus on sexing them to boost stats.
I was doing a lot more breeding and having some luck. While I think the stat cap needs adjustment, I do like the way it adds a "middle-game", forcing you to work your way up to having 1000 in everything. Without caps, once you had a monster that boosts each stat it was just a matter of getting around to buffing up each monster.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:20 pm

Just an observation: With a title like 'Breeding Season', doesn't that mean this game is full of 'BS'? ;)
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby H4xX » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:41 am

Wow, nice game
Beaten it today :mrgreen:

After the first 2 debt payments the game became really easy and I had like at least 10 times the money the debt was at for all time.

When i had the new cow girl, I was breeding so quickly that I got from Geysir 1 to 10 in just 3 days (=11x11x450 Gil/pet/day) :D
So I made 8 million every month at around the 6th month even without further improvements.
In the next versions I'll know how to get new pets and their use and get that far in just a month :3
Hope it won't be that much about potential rise again which makes it either totally easy or risky.

Also after 9 months the shop pets abilities seemed to exponentially rise, so all of them had all abilities and thereby were albinos which pass on their abilities (not sure if that means that children = albinos) which makes it pretty boring
And their prices suddenly were at exact 1.
And I had a mission to get a pet with 2x the same ability.
When Selling all, not all items were sold when I had too many, but thats fine, cause it makes the game lag for 10 seconds anyway and I know they're a lot.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:54 am

Here's an idea to help with making clients more important/worthwhile.

First off, take out monster barns as a reward for gold clients (use fame levels instead; new monster type every X fame points).

All traits are locked by the clients. Thereby, clients only hold 'perks' rather than monsters.

Rank the traits depending on usefulness:

Game breakers are Gold : True Breeding, Incorrigible, Mutagenic, and others that speed up the process of breeding.

Developers are Silver: Added Value, Boundless Potential, and others that just improve the new monster but not really effect breeding.

Leftovers are Bronze: Albino, Are you sure you're not Adopted, Strong Family Resemblance and others that do little else than change the appearance of the monster or have little game effect.

When a client is completed, it opens a trait of the corresponding level or lower (gold can be anything, silver can be silver or bronze, bronze is just bronze). Also announce the specific trait gained, rather than announce one has opened <never did figure out what was the 'hidden' trait>. If the trait is already open, too bad no new trait.

That will make the 'game breakers' a VERY rare find and something well deserved. This gives incentive to do the clients to search for the really rare powers.

Side Note that should happen with clients regardless of the above:

Reward money needs to reflect the requirements as well. Less than requirements should make more money the lower that stat is.

Trait requirements should be a multipler since it's kinda hit or miss if you can find said trait(s): reward *= 1 + <number of traits> for example. (i.e. 0 traits should just be a x1 so it doesn't change the reward, 3 traits would be a x4 bonus).

Monster Requirements should also be a multipler; but smaller. (One specific breed add .5 to the multipler, Any except -.5 multipler>

That should help make the clients more worthwhile to go after. At least to me, it makes sense.... thoughts?
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Sinnshaft » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:04 pm

Ths is going to be a long post, so aplologies in advance, I can be longwinded. Firstly let me say how much potential this game has and what a great job you've done of it already. I'm going to be critical and I'm going to offer suggestons, but what you've made so far is a great game without them and I only offer this up to help you make the game better, not to point out flaws.

Now where the game suffers so far (at least where it seems to me) is in money management, the monthly payment and in the actual attachment to breeding the animals themselves. What do I mean by this? Well, the game can be broken into three main resources. Time, space and money. Space is pretty much perfect as is, five slots per animal seems very reasonable especially when considering the amount of animals that may be added into the game. So, let's start with money. Money makes the world go around, and in Breeding Season it's really very apparent. At present cashflow is a massive issue when you start, a real struggle to make ends meet. One that most casual, first time players would not manage to meet. They don't know the raw money making power of consumables or how to best breed an animal quickly to produce them. Then like many games, money becomes a complete non-issue to the point where you earn more than you can spend (or give as monthy stipends). The reason they have this much is that the player is made to care more about getting money (to pay the bills) than the actual animal breeding. You don't need to sell animals when you just breed a bunch of money makers who churn out consumables.

Now part of the reason this is an issue is because of the ease with which it can be done, but also how difficult the other source of money is in comparisson and how unreasonable the demands of the 3 people buying can be. After a few sensible sales a client will demand something you just can't do without a whole host more animals, which needs time, farm spaces and most importantly, money. By the time you've bought the necessary animals, bred the necessary animals and made them ready to sell the amount you could have made just selling consumables outweighs it tenfold. Once all three become unreasonable you just don't bother, which is a real shame. Of course. this will be made even worse when longer pregnancies is implemented, since the breeding stage will take even longer making consumables the only real option.

So on to the second point, attatchment to breeding the animals. Since it's easier to sell consumables than sell to clients a player will just breed their animals toawards this goal from the outset. As the game progresses you end up throwing away newborns at an alarming rate. The only animals you 'care' about are the ones who are near perfect (perfect animals produce better consumables). Once the breeding stage is longer this will change immensely, since the time spent would be a wasted resource if you throw away every slightly inferior newborn. It will still happen, but ideally there would be something in place to make this less of a simple throwing away of the creature.

Now what could you do to solve all of this? Well the easy way out is to nerf consumable selling, but that will have negative effects in itself. Being able to sell masses of consumables isn't really the problem, it's how money is so important to game progression. My suggestion would be to merge the clients, gold, silver and bronze into the monthly demand. Instead of just wanting a butt-ton of money, Delilah wants very specific animals and her appeasement will alter based on the quality (gold, slver, bronze). This also makes sense story wise. Dililah recieves a gold wolf and happy that you appeased her, she grants you permission to own more land or different types of animal (upgrades are unlocked in the ranch upgrade store). She recieves a bronze wolf and she's not so appeased, but your month's contract is filled. Fail to meet a contract and she's got you where she wants you. Game over man, game over.

With this, you are given a month (resource: time) to complete the breed instead of being pushed for money, which can now be spent in order to complete the breeding insead of being hoarded to pay an ungodly sum. This would also give you as a designer more control of the gold, silver and bronze rewards, since each month would represent a different difficulty insead of it being deduced from the last animal sold. Month one could be easy, month 2 slightly harder - and so on until things become too crazy and subsequent monthly demands are capped.

Along with this change (a big change, I grant you) you could also implement somewhere where some of the newborn animals who are sub-par could be sold to, rather than simply disposed of. The cash given to you for them could be based on their stats, similarly to how the gold, silver and bronze clients already do, just without the stat demands and a lot less monetary gain. This would be balanced with selling consumables to make both a viable source of income rather than one being more effective than the other.

Ok, heavy block out of the way, there were some last few things I wanted to mention. The perk 'Fertile' improves the chance of that animal bearing offspring, when I saw it in the store I was unsure initially whether the tooltip "This monster is 10% more fertile" meant for breeding or in terms of FER stat, since both share the same name. Fertility in terms of breeding makes a lot of sense, more than being able to feed. Does FER need to have this name or could it be renamed something else? Maybe consitution (CON)? Or at the very least, a little clarity in the tooltip would make it better for new players.

Also, I read that people suggested making the sprites for the existing pens smaller in order to clear room on the farm for the animal areas you are planning to add. I'd actually suggest that the sizes at present are good (easy to click, easy to see), and a second page to the left or right (or both eventually) which is purchasable at the farm upgrades store would be better. Why? Well, say you want a woodland animals, the extension left could be a forest upgrade allowing you to purchase forest animal pens for Elves or Centwhores. Maybe to the right, there's a lake that could be purchased for sharkgirl pens or other water animals. Following from them a snowy mountain area perhaps where harpies could be relocated, and other more hardy snow creatures like Yetis. Jungle, swamp, magically tainted... there are plenty of options and all viable sources of extending land and spending your cash. I'm just throwing ideas around here, but I feel like shrinking the pens will only go so far when so much could be gained from added areas. It's more work, but will be worth it in the long run.

Again, great game. Keep working at it and it could be something legendary.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:12 pm

I think the caps need tweaking as well. Started a new game, was breeding true Str,Dex,Sta,Fer pluses and a number of traits and when I got a monster will all of those I realized it's highest stat cap was WIL (which I wasn't working on at all) at over 600.

As a suggestion, instead of monsters inheriting from they parents + a small modifier for all stats; have the stat modifier reflect the breed modifiers it was born with. So the child will take on the better stat cap of their parents and then have it modified by its own modifiers (good or bad). So a negative modifier will actually lower the cap of the child.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby tracingthelines » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:21 pm

Ironvein Wrote:As a suggestion, instead of monsters inheriting from they parents + a small modifier for all stats; have the stat modifier reflect the breed modifiers it was born with ... a negative modifier will actually lower the cap of the child.


While an interesting idea, it'd kind of ruin any attempts to make a monster with all negative modifiers due to the sheer lack of ability to feed or breed daily as breeding brings babies closer to 6 -'s. It'd take a lot of wasted days (or savescumming) to pull off such a feat, I'd think. Then again, maybe that's what people want?
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:32 pm

Sinnshaft Wrote:Ok, heavy block out of the way, there were some last few things I wanted to mention. The perk 'Fertile' improves the chance of that animal bearing offspring, when I saw it in the store I was unsure initially whether the tooltip "This monster is 10% more fertile" meant for breeding or in terms of FER stat, since both share the same name. Fertility in terms of breeding makes a lot of sense, more than being able to feed. Does FER need to have this name or could it be renamed something else? Maybe consitution (CON)? Or at the very least, a little clarity in the tooltip would make it better for new players.




FER is Feral-ness not Fertile. It affects how much the monster could be fed.
STA is Stamina which as too much like CON (constitution) so that doesn't really work either.

H-Bomb has already mentioned this, but Deliah's 'payment' is a placeholder. Nothing near what it'll really be when he finishs that part.

I agree that the client and consumables are kinda broken game logic wise. I think its due to the point that the requirements are selected based off your fame, which grows too fast due to the selling of consumables. I think he should remove the gaining of fame for consumables and see if that balances things out or not.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:38 pm

tracingthelines Wrote:
Ironvein Wrote:As a suggestion, instead of monsters inheriting from they parents + a small modifier for all stats; have the stat modifier reflect the breed modifiers it was born with ... a negative modifier will actually lower the cap of the child.


While an interesting idea, it'd kind of ruin any attempts to make a monster with all negative modifiers due to the sheer lack of ability to feed or breed daily as breeding brings babies closer to 6 -'s. It'd take a lot of wasted days (or savescumming) to pull off such a feat, I'd think. Then again, maybe that's what people want?


Maybe true, although currently no point in getting all minus monsters (I used to do that too, but aiming for payments was the new priority for this version. Besides, didn't say it was a big modifier (I was thinking at most +- 10), so a cascade effect that you describe doesn't seem very likely. Maybe have the + modifier higher than the minus too to prevent it (pluses around 100, minuses again around 10).
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Oringlas » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:59 pm

Just a slight interface suggestion and a bug report.

Suggestion - Give the Breeding dialog some more vertical space, so you can have 5 animals in each selection box. This way, when you use the drop-down control to select a breed, you can see all animals of that breed without having to scroll the list.

Bug - The "Want to Decde..." text scrolls with the mouse-wheel.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby tehk » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:50 pm

A winner is me!
The bitch made me pay an extra 700k for the last payment :(
Anyway, looking forward to seeing more of the game.

Back to lurking.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby weyutco358 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:34 pm

I've been playing the hell out of this game, just a couple of what ifs, I have no experience with programming so I don't know how hard it would be. But if when a monster becomes unsaleable to the clients, maybe we could sell them to a circus or arena for a low price? The game has gotten a lot harder especially now that the Dahlia lady keeps doubling the amount of money, maybe instead of doubling by thousands, maybe by hundreds? Maybe you could make Fenris, for humor, sneak onto the ranch disguised as a monster, and has a go at the farmer? Keep doing what you're doing, its a pretty fun game.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Orbot_Vectorman » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:36 pm

I'm really looking forward to player pregnancy, not only that, but I'm hoping for monster pregnancy and egg laying. Keep up the good work! looking forward to the next update.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby el zilcho » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:20 am

Sorry if I'm repeating anything I only skimmed Sinnshaft's post.

One issue i had with selling monsters, was the quick depreciation of money awarded compared to the time/effort/100K or what ever was needed in late game. I eventually just breed geyser 10 into everything, at that point it was 30,000 for a gold client or 100,000ish(probably more) a day on consumables. Is the payment stacked with reputation???

Also I don't know if you wanted this. when I write IF statements I always think first, where do i want the cut off. Example:

If (str => demand){
"function here"
}
say demand was 120, this would mean 120 and up would trigger the function.

If (str > demand){
"function here"
}

If demand was 120, 121 and up would trigger the function.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Ironvein » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:15 am

Old bug, new place. Monster don't disappear immediately if you are in the breeding pen and then client and sell one of the monsters; if you had selected one to breed, it is still there after the sale.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby manillan » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:52 pm

Excellent game. Regardless of what you implement in future releases, you've done a fantastic job.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby FruitSmoothie » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:40 pm

Was the donation link taken out of the first post? The ingame thing that seems like a button doesn't work. Ah oh, even on the blog page the donation features page is borked. I wanted to see what features were doing well.
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Re: Breeding Season: Donation Voting! [Game Update 3/17/2013

Postby Rakaziel » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:10 pm

First let me say that I really, really like your game. The animations are smooth, the designs are cool and the breeding, client and cosumable system is really neat set up. I especially like the variety you have brought in the game, the many different traits and colors.

However, the game currently has two glaring issues. One is that it requires an ungody amount of luck (or save-scumming) to make it through the first few months, both in the bonuses you find in the monsters at the market and the luck you have in breeding. And given the low fertility of the monsters without pumping them full of holstaurus milk, adding pregnancy periods to the mix would make the first few months impossible to survive.

The other is a bug in the current build. The clients eventually start demanding more than two traits per monster, making it literally impossible to meet their requirements. The clients also quickly get unfair because the market is so random that it sometimes takes weeks to just find the trait.

A good solution for both the unfit offspring and the crazy clients would be to also have the possiblity to also sell your monsters in town, at the same price rates you have for selling and buying you have for consumables. This would allow to play a middle way between desperately looking for geysir (month 6 and have not found it yet) and constantly digging through the markets to satisfy clients.

Another solution for the clients would be to simply have more of them, say three per type. This means nine possible clients, making it a bit easier to sell something. The fact that you need to breed six specilized monsters to lower stats, taking up a fifth of your space, makes it difficult enough.
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