Breeding Season: Alpha Version 5.3 [Update 11/3/14]

[Ironvein]

Oh, forgot the actual bug I noticed. The 'click zones' in the Dickwolf pen overlap greatly (especially the 2nd wolf slot). More often than not I'll get the 1st or 3rd wolf status screen when I'm trying to click on 2nd wolf. Maybe limit the 'clickable' part of the wolf to just the head instead of the entire body.

Not really noticing it as much in the other pens, but they are better spaced out than the wolf pen.

[WonderGamer]

a little bug I notice if it's one, all creatures say incest, they are not related yet, new buy at the shop with unknown mother/father well at least 4 of my 5 monsters have unknown father/mother

I'm noticing that as well with this latest version. Brand new game & every monster on monster combination I'm trying is giving me the incest warning. The only time I'm not getting it is when the monster is screwing the breeder. I don't know if this is actually being calculated in the background & you're getting penalized for every offspring you end up giving birth to or if it's just a simple display bug. I assume it's probably getting triggered by matching "names" & since all the parents are reading UNKNOWN, the game is considering that as the same parents rather than reading a blank value or filtering out the UNKNOWN value. In the current state, there's no real reason in playing it as every offspring you give birth to is going to end up retarded.

EDIT: Looks like the OP is verifying this bug on his blog:
http://www.legendofkrystal.com/forum/posting.php?mode=edit&f=34&p=226404

That was a herp-derp on my part (it thinks that "Null" is a parent). This should be only for the warning, though, and should not affect the actual results of breeding.

[Justapuppet]

Judging from one or two posts on the actual blog, though, it looks like there are actual problems with the game not properly warning the player either (saw at least one post where someone didn't get warnings but ended up with herp-derp trait). So I guess the problem with "null" parents can't be the only problem.

[Ironvein]

Honestly, I always thought that the incest warning was kinda dumb in the first place. Getting a monster with HERP-DERP only ever meant one thing to me, time to farm the incorrigible trait. If it's not available yet, keep one of your current set of breeders and replace the others with fresh blood (it is likely that shop monsters have higher maxes at that point anyway). HERP-DERP is a speed bump; not the end of the world.

[WonderGamer]

Another thing I'm noticing is that the species requirement on the Clients screen are all lowercase now. They used to have a cap on the first letter. Not that I find this a problem or anything, just looks weird to me...

I also have a question about the Kittengirl race I've been noticing in this latest version. Are these classified as Catgirls (meaning, can you sell them to a client if they are asking for a Catgirl or would it have to be sold under the Anything but rule, as I have not seen this species show up on a client yet)?

[HadronKnight]

i r winrar. do not opens if you has not completes game. srsly.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

[FloraMeriadoc]

Harista can you find a way to change the window size or something because sometimes I find it very annoying to click on

Dialog Test if I click too fast to close a window of a monster or when I have them breeding the X arrive dirrectly on the

Dialog Test Rectagle and I'm what you call a " button smasher " I press rapidly on my mouse when I breed and close a window

and since I make it fast I hit also the Dialog Test almost everytimes

[Justapuppet]

Honestly, I always thought that the incest warning was kinda dumb in the first place. Getting a monster with HERP-DERP only ever meant one thing to me, time to farm the incorrigible trait. If it's not available yet, keep one of your current set of breeders and replace the others with fresh blood (it is likely that shop monsters have higher maxes at that point anyway). HERP-DERP is a speed bump; not the end of the world.

Nothing dumb about having a warning, especially when you can't always breed incorrigible into your monsters (early on, or with bad luck even later).

[Lurkingchar]

Hey so Harista... not gonna disappoint right? The update is coming out today right?

[Ironvein]

Nothing dumb about having a warning, especially when you can't always breed incorrigible into your monsters (early on, or with bad luck even later).

idk. I always thought of HERP-DERP AS the warning and now we've got a warning for the warning. Seems redundant to me, since it isn't a big deal just to release it anyway. If for some reason we couldn't release newborns immediately (or maybe monster pregnancy similar to the breeder), then I'd see the need for the incest warning since it would take time to remedy. Let's face it, we don't have the cash to kept getting new monsters all the time at the start of the game. Incest is a given for creating a decent breeding monster early in the game.

[unnecessaryaccount]

When you breed with the incest warning, you get lower breeding stats. When you breed with herp derp warning you can get a non-sellable monster. That's the difference.

[Ironvein]

When you breed with the incest warning, you get lower breeding stats. When you breed with herp derp warning you can get a non-sellable monster. That's the difference.

What do you mean by that? 'lower breeding stats'? I have not ever seen that happen.

[WonderGamer]

Well I've seen a monster born with absolutely no modifiers at all after breeding when incest was involved, I assume some of these that only got minus modifiers (without the Cruel trait) might have been a result of that also. I never really noticed lower stats before (I assumed they just started low at birth), although I may be looking at the wrong stats (modifier percentages, numerical stats, etc.). Perhaps an explanation as to what stats get lowered when breeding with the incest penalty would be helpful.

And a question regarding this HERP-DERP status/warning. Is this something that is going to end up showing in place of the INCEST warning, or is it a trait that ends up showing up on a newborn monster (or both).

[DraconisOminous]

Well I've seen a monster born with absolutely no modifiers at all after breeding when incest was involved, I assume some of these that only got minus modifiers (without the Cruel trait) might have been a result of that also. I never really noticed lower stats before (I assumed they just started low at birth), although I may be looking at the wrong stats (modifier percentages, numerical stats, etc.). Perhaps an explanation as to what stats get lowered when breeding with the incest penalty would be helpful.

And a question regarding this HERP-DERP status/warning. Is this something that is going to end up showing in place of the INCEST warning, or is it a trait that ends up showing up on a newborn monster (or both).

Older models had HERP-DERP IMMINENT as a warning, and HERP-DERP is a trait that prevents monsters from being sold and gives a visual clue by using unique eyes. . . Giant, derpy eyes.

[FloraMeriadoc]

When you breed with the incest warning, you get lower breeding stats. When you breed with herp derp warning you can get a non-sellable monster. That's the difference.

affect your monsters with the best traits and with human adaptability and they won't have any lower stats unless if you get

cruel or if they already have negative stats all my monters have 6 + str, sta, cha, fer, will, dex all the + are green

1000 of each stats maximized 21 harvest 21 feed if I sell one of them it give me over 40000 if I harvest one of them I get

11 item I'm saying there is not much wrong with incest monster specially when both of them have incorrigible 10

[Ironvein]

All right, let's clear up some of these misconceptions about what's going on with offspring breeding. Most of the questions had already been answered in previous posts, but now that we have some 60+ pages; ppl are getting too lazy to go back and read the old stuff.

Stats and Caps:

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

A childs starting stats is roughly going to equal the (sum of the parents)/8 (or 25% of the average score of the parents, whichever you prefer). Those who have breed 1000 stat parents will notice that the child always starts at 250.

The stat caps of the child will be the higher of the parent's stats unless the child has a negative breed stat modifier; then it'll take the lower of the two (I may be wrong here, but that was the original suggestion when HBomb implemented the caps in the first place).

If a there was a positive breed stat modifier, it that stat would have the larger of the parents plus a small cap bonus to that stat. Human Adaptability adds a cap bonus to ALL stats regardless of the breed modifier results.

Breed Modifiers and MOD:

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

When a child is born, each Breed Modifier (+/-/blank) is determined individually.

For each one of four results can be made:

1) becomes blank.
2) copies the mother's Breed Mod
3) copies the father's Breed Mod
4) gains the 'sum' of the parent's Breed Mod.

Breeding Stock strengthens the chance of that parents Breed Mod carrying over. Recently though, HBomb seems to have fiddled with it some what and it is much easier to pull a positive trait out than before (almost to the point that Breeding Stock doesn't seem to be needed anymore). <My opinion is to revert this back, HBomb. So Breeding Stock doesn't lose it's worth.>

As for MOD, this is simply a guess but, I suspect that something similar is being used to determine the child's stating MOD. Doesn't really matter though since MOD is easily influenced by consumables or mating with a negative trait modifer (though why you'd WANT it to go down....)

Inbreeding and HERP-DERP:

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Probably the most misunderstood, given recent posts. Here's what's going on.

There is a hidden stat that determines it's 'Inbredness'. For a 'pure' monster that stat starts at 1.

When the monster's mate and a child is born, the parents' linage is compared and if there is a commonality (i.e. one parent also sired the other or the parent's share a common ancestry) the child's Inbredness becomes the sum of the parents Inbredness. Otherwise the child is considered 'pure' as well and stat is 1. The linage doesn't check very far (only the previous generation), so a grandparent and grandchild could bred and not be considered incest.

HERP-DERP happens when this Inbredness reaches a certain threshold (say 100 for example). This is not a percentage chance, meaning if parents have one HERP-DERP child, all children of those parents will be HERP-DERP.

The only penalties of HERP-DERP that I'm aware of these:

1) HERP-DERP monsters cannot be sold.
2) HERP-DERP only begets HERP-DERP children and other traits will never carry over.

Incorrigible reduces this 'Inbred' stat by 10% per level. So Incorrigible 10 will never have HERP-DERP children.

And that's all that happens with Inbreeding, no stat penalty here that I'm aware of. It's just a method to hamper breeding and forcing you to go back to store periodically for fresh meat.

[devron]

Thanks for posting that, Iron. Hard to keep track of everything even if following for a while.

[Niara]

Thanks for that, Iron, though I'd like to add one small correction regarding inbreeding:

Breedings that offer an incest warning -do- have a small negative impact on creature stats prior to reaching critical DERP, however, it's actual effect isn't too noticeable in most cases. It doesn't affect your modifiers, and it doesn't affect your stat -Caps-, however, what an incest breeding does do is cause a slightly randomised general lowering of the child's -initial stat values- In the long run, this means nothing, since chances are you'll always be pushing those initial values up to their caps pretty quickly, so there's no real effect.

You can verify this effect, for testing, like this:

Take two creatures that have absolute 1000 stat caps, and completely maxed stats, so, 1000 in everything. Ideally you want them to have all positive modifiers, or something else to ensure that the child will definitely remain at absolute full cap (adaptability on both parents will do, to be certain).

Uniformly, the child will be born with maximum caps, and also initial starting stats of 500 across the board. Now, repeat the test, but make the breeding an incestuous one, with the warning (an easy way to do this would be to quickly max the child you just made, and once his or her stats were all 1000, breed it back with its cross-gendered parent). the child you produce from THIS pairing, with the exactly the same statistical background, but with an incest warning, will still have max caps, and will still go through the randomisation process of their modifiers (so possibly + to all six if that's how both parents were, and guaranteed that if they have the right traits to ensure pass-on), BUT, their initial starting stats will be a slight randomisation in the 400s and maybe a few at 500 still, rather than the even 500 for everything of a non-incestuous pairing.

As far as I can tell, that is the only actual present downside to incest warning pairs, aside from the internal inbreeding counter building towards critical DERP.


As an aside, a lot of people have been commenting that the most recent build was broken due to the store parents causing incest counts... hilariously, I never encountered this bug at all, because in my latest game on this build, I started with a single wolf, just one, and bred descendancy four times down the line to my player-character... so she was the mother of my entire pen of wolves, and I only introduced a cat to the mix once I'd done some work bulking stats on the wolves with just them and my player.... since my first kitty was breeding with a wolf four generations down from any "unknown" parent, whose own parents were my breeder and his father wolf, no unexpected incest warnings showed up ever; unexpected because I find incest a wonderful way of retaining and boosting stats, so I ride the DERP line pretty fine as I play... Everyone is incestuously related to everyone else, if you trace it back, in my game.... and my entire breed stock is spawned ultimately from a single wolf, and later a single cat... And with thanks to the changeling trait, I only got to the store when I want to pick up a trait that I see there that I don't have yet.

Oh, P.S.

you mentioned something about not thinking much of the incest warning, because you view getting a DERP as the warning itself.. to that I've got to ask... warning of what? See, a warning, by definition, is something that acts as a herald of something worse to come... if -Getting- a DERP is the warning, then what is it a warning of? What is worse than getting a DERP, that getting a DERP is warning you of?

I agree that getting a DERP is your signal to stop that particular pair and lay off the overt incest with that line a little bit, but it's less a warning and more just reckless breeding: it's like drilling for lava and treating one of your miners falling into the lava as your "warning" that you've reached it. It's a sign that we have, but it's not a warning. I'm going to keep sacrificing miners, too, since it's easy and more or less consequence free... but I am glad that those who don't wish to sacrifice miners, or don't have the resources or time in the day to waste doing so, can get a warning that they're getting 'close' to the lava, without having to drop someone in it.

[Ironvein]

Oh, P.S.

you mentioned something about not thinking much of the incest warning, because you view getting a DERP as the warning itself.. to that I've got to ask... warning of what? See, a warning, by definition, is something that acts as a herald of something worse to come... if -Getting- a DERP is the warning, then what is it a warning of? What is worse than getting a DERP, that getting a DERP is warning you of?

I agree that getting a DERP is your signal to stop that particular pair and lay off the overt incest with that line a little bit, but it's less a warning and more just reckless breeding: it's like drilling for lava and treating one of your miners falling into the lava as your "warning" that you've reached it. It's a sign that we have, but it's not a warning. I'm going to keep sacrificing miners, too, since it's easy and more or less consequence free... but I am glad that those who don't wish to sacrifice miners, or don't have the resources or time in the day to waste doing so, can get a warning that they're getting 'close' to the lava, without having to drop someone in it.

Your analogy is flawed, you're saying that if I hit HERP_DERP (lava) is going to kill all my workers (parents), which it doesn't. All the 'HERP-DERP' warning is good for is to avoid seeing derpy eyes, because if you get that warning it is ALL. READY. TOO. LATE. HERP-DERP was originally a surprise, and now that the secret is out; old players begged HBomb to add this warning so they don't have to see it, thereby spoiling that surprise to new players who don't know any better and I think THAT is a shame. It was really funny the first time it happened to me.

And I think its dumb because fixing the issue is easy... breed the male with the trainer for a couple of generations. When breeding with the trainer, the likelihood the child keeps all his breeding modifiers is quite high; so there is little ground lost.

The ironic thing is none of you see that there is actually a benefit to keeping HERP-DERP; although its only as a method of strategy. HERP-DERPing does not affect breeding mods or stop stat caps from growing, so it is not terribly hard to max the cap to 1000. Why is this important you ask? HERP-DERP consumables do not suffer any penalty from coming from an HD monster.

This is useful in once you get DEX to 1000; since all actions only take a minute as it can make a good alternate revenue stream. If all clients start wanting traits you do not have and you don't have the money for the empire's payment yet, restocking the monster store starts getting expensive. On the flip side, if you are just looking for a fast way to build up a monster's MOD, those consumables work just as well or better than what your current breeding monsters (or store for that matter) can produce. Once your breeders are maxed to 1000 and start collecting traits like All Night Long, Gusher, etc., then HD monsters are no longer necessary.

And before you point this out, yes, I know the empire payment can be ignored but it's will not always be that way. When I playtest, I'm also looking for strategies to play for when the next version comes out and its no longer a test version.

[t4d44]

I've seen comments about the trait "No Downsides" not working for earlier editions and I'd like to point out that it is still not working under some situations here too.

One situation that I actually remember is when a Dickwolf with "Slick" mated with a Holstasaurus with "No Downsides" and "Fertility 1". The Dickwolf somehow dropped her DEX.