Legend of Krystal Forums

The following post and subsequent posts here are the roadmap of a game. I am not a coder, programmer, or anything close. It is merely an idea that came into my head and that I need to get out of there as no one else has worked on it anywhere near what I'd do if I could. No, I'm not taking up game development as a hobby. If you think you can put this road map to use, feel free. You won't get a copyright strike, I won't come looking for you, you don't have to compensate me. It's just me throwing out a system that may or may not work. Feedback is welcome as I'll be building this idea over time

Story

You are thrust into a world you didn't know you were a part of. As it stands, you are required to pay debt to those you owe, who are looking for you. Your past was filled with debt, strangling off love interests and compromising your relationships. You're more of a loner now and having a sudden windfall has put you into a crisis. Can you pay off your debts? Do you want to? Is it too much? Or is it generational?

More has to be understood about the entire premise before a game can be mapped out. Too shallow and players lose interest. Too deep in the beginning and players turn apathetic. A story can certainly follow a few beats and twists and turns, but overall, the story needs to be strong and enticing. As more characters are introduced, smaller stories can certainly enliven what is going on. Relationships and their growth (both positive and negative) are usually avenues that can certainly cause a group to like or hate a story.

As more time goes on, the story needs to change and evolve. It has to grow and learn when to contract when it gets too out of line. If it stays too far in one area, it quickly becomes stale as time moves on.

Setting

A static setting has to engage the player enough that they don't notice it hasn't changed. For certain games, the setting of a courtroom (Phoenix Wright) was not the strength of the game, it built upon a good story. Depending on the type of story, a static setting allows for a story's strengths to be placed elsewhere. As such, for this game, the setting is built up over time and over the course of the game that the player engages. "Trophies" of certain accomplishments allow the players to note the changes that have occurred. Whether that's to a house or other earmarks if for the developer to decide. Regardless, the player gets certain rewards to note the progress that they're making. Small, minute changes should build up to more eventful changes as time moves on. While true in a static setting, a more dynamic game setting (such as RPGs) have the changes occur to characters which can note the change from the beginning of the journey. Slowly building up these changes allows for better dynamics to work with player behavior could be an observance.

I should warn that setting can't change too quickly or too slowly. Too quickly, and the player can become confused and lost on what they are to do. Too slowly equates to not enough build up or interest in other aspects of the game. A player engaged in a story or gameplay won't notice the setting unless those two aspects are way off. Small twists of settings can occur and enhance the experience, but it should always have other strong elements of the tools of a developer (story and gameplay) to entice the player to continue the game.

Kind of sounds like the start of a brothel manager game. Although the debt mechanize has been used in other games Tales of Xillia 2 had a debt system, and most players hated it.

I think the grinding a debt system usually implies turns some people off.

Random2Action Wrote:Kind of sounds like the start of a brothel manager game. Although the debt mechanize has been used in other games Tales of Xillia 2 had a debt system, and most players hated it.

I think the grinding a debt system usually implies turns some people off.

True, or that the setting is rather static. If you've ever played Recettear, it used this same thing for a random dungeon generator that also had a store management type deal.

It's not the grind that's horrible, it's the setting not really being used and utilized to make people feel strongly about the game. A way to explain is that there should be tools to build up a setting and make people forget what's going on while learning the game. In my view, you have to pace that out or people see it as an impossible goal and ignore it after a while.

Managing and dealing debt are things we do in real life. So doing it in a game should be similar or people lose all respect for the game.

Haven't played Recettear, it's got some pretty good reviews though. I agree. Incremental increases the to the complexity of the game are better then overwhelming a player with choices early on, and some games have painfully dull starting tutorials. Anyhow I'll leave you to your idea generation. You could make a Google doc, or just update the starting post as your idea progresses. It's a good idea, to have all your ideas well organized.

Random2Action Wrote:Haven't played Recettear, it's got some pretty good reviews though. I agree. Incremental increases the to the complexity of the game are better then overwhelming a player with choices early on, and some games have painfully dull starting tutorials. Anyhow I'll leave you to your idea generation. You could make a Google doc, or just update the starting post as your idea progresses. It's a good idea, to have all your ideas well organized.

Eh, I'm not a fan of Google Docs but I'll be putting it here as I get around to it and finish my work elsewhere.

Don't be afraid to ask questions though. It's good to have someone look into your ideas from a different perspective so that it makes it more appealing no matter how it works out. This is what road maps are used to iron out and it benefits when questions come up.

Small update.

Nothing fancy. I'll probably talk about gameplay next. Getting the aspects out the way, it allows for a deeper dive into what the game is. Some people might already have guesses as to what this may be. But I'll leave it vague for now until the next few parts are ready.

Just leaving a quick comment. Debt systems are kinda over used at the moment. If you need a quota till fill, like get X on the high score before day X, why not give the player a goal to reach instead of a pit to fall into?
The protag wants a boat, a plane or a limeted edition of his favorite comic book. If it is a "strange place", maybe a ticket home?
It cost X and needs to be bought before Day Y. It is still a hunt for money/score, but instead of keeping afloat above the pit, you strive for the star in the sky...

Okay, time to go to bed... getting poetic in my writing ffs... I need sleep...

But not yet! I like this topic. But since I am almost falling asleep where I am, I might have gotten it all wrong (sorry about that)

Anyway. You talk about story and setting, but I would like to point you in another direction... The main game loop. To be honest, the rest is just fillings. If the main game loop isn't catching enough, (read well made),
the game will be forgoten, sooner or later.
What is a main game loop? Lets take a basic example from some games:
Platformers: Get to the end of the level avoiding traps.
Rpgs: Go to city, go to dungeon, kill mobs, kill boss, go to next city.
Mangement Games: Build X of Y but as you do the need for Z increases and Y decrece, Now you need to Build Z and B untill X rises again.
Strategy games: Get resourses, build units, crush enemy.

Sure a good story might grip the heart of a player. A cool steam punk world might want to press on for a while longer. But if the main loop of the game is borring they will stop plaing, and maybe read about to world on the wiki or watch the long play on youtube.

A dept loop game play is get cash/score, each time the needed score needs to be higher, it is basicly the same mechanic as an old breakout game, with one level, require the score to be higher each time or else you won't progress.
See what you can do to spice this up? Trophys that cost score? But what is that really? It is just adding X to the debt you need to repay. Change those tropys into upgrades, maybe each one of them adds a mechanic to the main game loop? This might turn things more interesting. Especially if the player themselves gets to chose what upgrade in which order. Add synergy between them. Now we have an interseting system. Add on an intersering setting or theme, and we got an idea for a game. Find a better way to motivate the player, not just to get X score, even if that is what the player is doing, hide it from them. Enter the enemy, the bad guy. Device a plot, add a story, it doesn't need to be strong, just enough to keep the player wanting to read the text boxes/listen to the audio. Take some of the upgrades, hide it in small chuncks of story, side tracks if you want. Add a story to give the player a hint on where to look for the next good upgrade. No idea on a story? add a new character, perhaps the character it self is the upgrade?

Sounds good? Well we basicly took breakout/arcanoid and by slapping on some elements, and a bit of a story we turned it into an rpg. But the fact remains, Breakout is breakout, Tales Of XXXX is a Tales of Rpg. If you don't like the game mechanic be it bouncing the ball, or swinging the sword at the monster, no mather what story you throw at it, or setting for that matter, you won't enjoy the game...

Now I really need that sleep... I feel like I am drunk and rambeling...