Legend of Krystal Forums

by **Commodus** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:57 am

Chan Wrote:Well, this is just a suggestion. But not fully sure if someone already said this. But for for quests. You could have the normal "Bounty" type quests.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I hope not. That would make the game feel very MMORPG-y, and I would hate that. I have seen a few games do this somewhat well, such as the Witcher series, but I think it’s best avoided.

Game Balance

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

STR Wrote:That one should also be some king of money-hole, so if any of you could tell me just how much money they are left with toward the end of a play-through, I’d be glad to know.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

In regards to the map, I read your e-mail and will reply once I’m finished here.

Okay, now let me explain my recent disappearance. It started when one of the members here made a comment.

Lucky777 Wrote:
Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Sewer hideout under the Chapel in St Astha is a close second though.
They don't have on their headgear, but I'm hoping some of those chicks down there are Nuns.
Fuck yes, Nun-fetish.

This got me thinking. I’m been talking about doing a test render. There was a scene in the game which I already had all the assets for except one, and I remember seeing a model for a habit a reasonable price. So, I decided to do this. Now, I know that I originally said I would proofreading, map and then test image, however it appears I’ll complete those in reverse order. What can I say? I guess I’m just a huge liar. Anyway, it took much longer than it should have. I spent an entire week trying to figure out why the “sunlight” wasn’t showing in the render. I spent a couple of days trying to figure out why the rightmost nun’s eyes were open in the modelling software but closed in the render. One thing I learned was that if there are problems like that, I probably introduced them early on by changing some setting, and the best option is to delete everything (in the first instance) or the offending object (in the second) and start over from the beginning, checking step by step to see where the error was introduced. That will save me time in the future. I also learned not to worry about small details when rendering at 544x416. I posed a figure in armor in front of them, hoping you’d see his reflection in the nearest nun’s eyes, but you can’t even tell the middle nun’s eyes are supposed to be blue at that size, so it was just a waste of time. Now, I didn’t use every trick I’ve learned on the render, and I would make some changes if I were doing it again. I’d group the nuns closer to the camera, due to the size. I’d put a fill light on the pillars, and the candles are in desperate need of subsurface scattering or volumetric lighting. The god rays need to be toned down. Still, as a proof of concept, it works. I learned a lot doing it, but I have a lot more to learn. I can certainly do better, but the improvements wouldn’t really be that noticeable. This image has no post work, so I can touch it up a bit. Still, to give an idea of the quality of my images and style, it serves its purpose. So, without further ado, I present The Sisters of St. Zaulys:

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Now, I would like all of you to keep of few things in mind. This is my first render, so I know it kind of sucks, so please bear that in mind. While I’ve been playing with the software for over a year, I haven’t done anything other than what I consider test images, where I change a few settings while using an object or two and see what happens. I might compare a few renders, then delete them. This is the first fully composed scene with full props that I’ve ever shown anyone. Please go gently with me. All that said, I would love to hair any critiques anyone would like to share. I’ll never get any better if others aren’t honest with me about my flaws. Also, do you think this would suffice to serve as the artwork in the game? If you don’t think it is any good in that regard, why? As I mentioned before, the impression I’ve gotten is that 2D art is preferred over 3D art. If you don’t think my art is good enough, would you be open to another 3D artist (not that I know anyone I can recommend) or do you think 2D is the only way to go? Discuss. Share. STR has stated that right now the artwork is the biggest obstacle to progressing the game at this point. Even if my artwork is garbage and shouldn’t be used, maybe we can make some progress on that front.

Well, this post has bloated beyond all reason. I seem to have a nasty habit of that. I’ll get going, write that e-mail and work on the other things I said I’d do.

by **mrttao** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:18 am

that render looks really good.
I don't mean "good for a first try", I mean actually good.

PS. someone volunteered to write some lewd dialog in the last page, I remember you asking for this before, but I didn't see you reply to him.
Did you notice his post?

by **STR** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:03 pm

Mrttao:

that render looks really good.
I don't mean "good for a first try", I mean actually good.

PS. someone volunteered to write some lewd dialog in the last page, I remember you asking for this before, but I didn't see you reply to him.
Did you notice his post?

I think you are confusing Commodus with me here, Mrttao. But worry not: he too is STR. (Damn. Had been wanting to use that quote somewhere for a long time!

)

Also, I believe I did answer Kuragari in my last post.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

And thank you for pointing out that mapping mistake in the sewers. Fixed it in my version, your name in the credits next time I update them if it's not already there, all that.

Commodus:

Thank you for the report on game balance and your endgame gold amount. You can never have too much feedback.

Coupons and unique weapons stacking through successive ng+ was indeed intended. (coupons will also keep on stacking through new game simple, as proof of your accomplishments).

And that render does look mightily nice to me, considering it's your first try! But I'll talk more about that, and about the maps, by mail. Also, I'm as eager as you to know what everyone on the forum think about it.

by **Lucky777** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:53 pm

Render's not bad.
The chicks DO look a little plastic-y, and the rightmost nun's hands seem just a little strange and doll-like somehow.
Nonetheless, the render's fappability when the nuns are stripped will immeasurably exceed that of a "no image" placeholder.

A decisive success.

And for a first effort, that's downright astonishing.

With all that said, though, I'd probably prefer customary 2D hentai animu art.
Why?
Well, I ain't completely sure.
For one thing, I think it matches better with RPG-Maker's cartoony style.
Far more importantly, I think it'll be easier to make more arousing content if you use actual drawings.

Things like Dlaby can get away with 3D art without a problem, as far as I'm concerned, because about 4/5 if not 9/10 of the hotness in them comes from the writing.
They'd be fine without ANY art, if you ask me, like Corruption of Champions has been for quite some time.
But as this game is going to be light on the pornographic writing and lean heavily or exclusively on the art, my personal vote would be (tentatively) for 2D shit.

I can be convinced otherwise by unprecedented 3D hotness, and if it's these 3D renders or nothing, then these are likely to be good enough.

But that's how the vote stands for now.

by **Commodus** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:57 am

STR:
Thank you. I already replied to your email, so I'll leave it at that. Also, I apologize for the length of the email. I guess it's a waiting game now.

mrttao:
Thank you as well. As I mentioned in my email to STR, when I look at it, all I see are issues and problems. It's nice to get a fresh pair of eyes to point out what is an actual issue to be fixed and what's an insignificant, unnoticeable issue to be ignored. If there's anything you don't like, I'd like to know. Conversely, if there's something you really liked or thought worked, I'd like to know as well. I spent a lot of time on small details that may not be noticed. If you liked something, it's something worth repeating as opposed to a waste of time.

Lucky777:Thank you for your comments. I'll make the skin a higher priority. I think I'll make sure to work on the skin in a well lit environment in the future before I build the scene. At the very least, I'll know how much of the problem is inherent in the skin settings and how much is caused by the lighting of the scene. As for the positioning of the hands, it was a little unnatural. The heels of her hands are against her chest. Her forearms are pushing up her breasts and tunic. That was one of the details I mentioned earlier. I wanted to showcase some tricks I'd learned about morphing the breasts and deforming the clothing. You can't even notice those things in that lighting/resolution. I got so caught up in that detail, I lost sight of the larger issue of the pose.

Lucky777 Wrote:Far more importantly, I think it'll be easier to make more arousing content if you use actual drawings.

I'm not sure how to interpret this comment. Part of me thinks it is a reference to how base models are basically Barbie dolls, so many artists simply work around that with creative use of camera angles. There are some nice morphs and props out there. There is one in particular I plan on buying if I end up doing the artwork. I'll probably buy it eventually anyway, but this will make it more of a priority. A blog by it's creator can be found here Note: NSFW. I hope to be half as good as him someday. Anyway, there are options out there.

If, on the other hand, you simply meant that you personally find the 2D anime art more arousing, well, everyone has there own taste, and I respect your opinion, so please disregard.

As for the writing, you may be jumping the gun on how much erotic text STR envisions for the game. My interpretation of his statements is simply that he feels the art should come first and the text should be based on it, not the other way around. That doesn't necessarily mean that the text won't eventually become the main source of eroticism in the game. I can see his point. It is easier for an author to construct a scenario around an image or group of images than it would be for an artist to express some of the creative scenarios that an imaginative author may devise. Also, it's hard to find an artist. While I'm fairly flexible about the characters' appearances, if someone else contributes the art to the game, they may some very definite ideas about how characters will look, and STR seems willing to give them a lot of latitude in that regard. If the artist decides they want Character X to be a blonde, STR doesn't want to have to edit a scene that describes that character as a brunette. Of course, I'm probably putting words into STR's mouth, so I'll stop.

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue, just clear up what may be misconceptions. Anyway, thank you for your critique. It'll help me focus on the most glaring issues instead of nitpicking over insignificant issues. If you have any other comments, I look forward to reading them.

by **mrttao** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:49 am

Conversely, if there's something you really liked or thought worked

The entire game

I know its cheesy, but its true.

A blog by it's creator can be found here Note: NSFW. I hope to be half as good as him someday. Anyway, there are options out there.

I have been following that blog for a while, amazingly good 3d art

by **Lucky777** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:40 pm

Commodus Wrote:A blog by it's creator can be found here Note: NSFW.

Hm.

I've no interest in the blog-writer's "erotica, not porn" shit, nor in some of his characters' deformed faces, but the "Girlfriends 4 Ever" stuff in the sidebar seems good enough.

While the minor point about cartoony pics matching with RPGMaker's cartoony style still stands, I find the far more important arousal point to be largely addressed.
I haven't seen 3D porn of that quality before, and thus 3D porn of that quality is indeed the "unprecedented 3D hotness" to which I had referred.
In principle, then, as long as the 3D porn is going to be "Girlfriends 4 ever" good, I have no objections to the use of it, and do not necessarily prefer 2D porn over it.

As to the text point:

STR Wrote:Nice and Blue:
No erotic dialogues in, sorry. For two reasons:
1: In cas[e] the extraordinary were to happen, and someone volunteered to do some artwork or render some 3D for the game, I wouldn't want them to feel restrained by an already existing text.

2: I've always found all that grunting and talking dirty more hilarious than anything in the numerous H-games I've played, and came to despise them with time, feeling the CGs[] would stand very well on their own. And I'm not good enough to write well in a style I loath[e].

Corrections and emphasis mine.

Despising and loathing, so yeah, no sexy dialogue.

Given that he talks about the CGs standing on their OWN, probably not all that much sexy text either.

by **Commodus** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:01 am

I stand corrected. While it's STR's game and should match his vision, I'll confess that I prefer a mix of text and graphics, probably with more emphasis on the text. Still, there is a great gulf in the quality of erotic text. The text STR describes in your quote reminds me of the stuff on the poorer end of the spectrum, full of onomatopoeic grunting words and "playful banter." Just as it is possible for there to be 3D graphics that pass your hotness threshold, it's possible there is erotic text that can pass STR's. Once the art issue is resolved one way or the other, since that's STR's preference, perhaps he'd be open to accepting erotic writing samples from volunteers to see if any meet his standards. Of course, I have no idea. Would STR care to weigh in and share his thoughts on the topic?

by **DemonAtShort** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:22 am

Agreed pretty much with everything that's been said about renders so far. For a game render, first try or no, it looks good. Add in the fact that that is a first try, and it's fantastic. The cloth looks really good for the most part, though perhaps is a bit too flat on the right figure. The light effect's probably a bit too strong (especially considering how dark the overall image is, generally even a ray of light like that causes a bit more ambient lighting), and the front ray/s look a bit odd. If they're two rays, they should probably separate a bit better, and if it's one ray it should light up the object they hit a bit better. Those lighting issues, though, are minor and quibbling. The main issue is, as Lucky said, the hands and possibly a little bit of the pose of the right figure, which to me feels a little bit an odd angle for the hands/elbows/arms to be bent at when fully combined. Granted, that could just be an impression given by the cloth, and even then it was just something that struck the back of my mind and took a while to fully form, so could just be me being a dope. Exceedingly good for a first try, and good even without that consideration.

Also agreed with Lucky, though, that I generally prefer drawn stuff, if just because renders almost always look a bit odd to me no matter how good they are (And that one approaches Uncanny Valley), and also because the program is often a limiting factor. In most RPG Maker games that used some sort of render, the portraits don't quite fit the renders. Granted, this depends on if the portraits are done by some sort of tool, or by an actual person. In the second case, that wouldn't an issue. Also, sometimes the renders don't quite fit the scene, just because of the limited settings/items/looks available. The scenes aren't written in this case, so could be written to what the rendering program can do (If, reading further along, there are written scenes at all.) But hopefully the program is good enough not to limit any prospective writing. I'm not familiar with that one, I assume, as I've never seen that style before, so I can't offer too many thoughts that way.

That said, everything with a grain of salt. I've only played one game maker's stuff where I outright loved the renderings, so I'm obviously a bit biased against even aside from listed complaints.

by **STR** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:05 am

I think you may be interpreting that quote a bit wrong, Lucky.

What I tried to say there is that:
1: If text there must be, it will come after the pics, not the other way around.
2: If text there must be, I won’t be the one writing it because I, personally, am a bit biased against erotic writing and thus wouldn’t be able to write anything convincing in that field.

Or, said in another way: if I have graphics the texts can be based on, and someone willing and able to write texts good enough to satisfy me, then texts there will be.

And, well, even if I had actually said that there wouldn’t be any text in this game ever... I’m no god. Just a complete amateur trying his hands at game making in his spare time. If you think some of my views are wrong, or the way I’m doing something is wrong, and if you give me convincing arguments, I’m in no way above changing my mind. Because, chances are, you are right.

So, yeah. Right now, I’m mostly waiting to get more feedback on the render option to make up my mind. If too much people are against it, or if Commodus himself decides not to do it, then we’ll simply fall back on the waiting-for-my-drawings-to-improve option. I’m still working on that regularly, the results are still scary, and it’s still a far future option as long as I don’t give up. So, well... Keep talking people, keep talking.

by **Lucky777** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:07 pm

STR Wrote:And, well, even if I had actually said that there wouldn’t be any text in this game ever... I’m no god. Just a complete amateur trying his hands at game making in his spare time. If you think some of my views are wrong, or the way I’m doing something is wrong, and if you give me convincing arguments, I’m in no way above changing my mind. Because, chances are, you are right.

Hahaha.

We differ there.

If I once decide I hate something, it doesn't show up in any project of mine, and counterarguments become mere displays of the delightful suffering of those who disagree.

EDIT: Also, I forgot that I've seen some Umemaro 3D animations which were pretty good too, so I shouldn't have been so surprised that 3D pornz can actually be great.

Dat memory.

by **mrttao** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:10 pm

It took me 3 hours, but I mapped out level 17 of the demon tower.

The forum for some reason recompressed it from 783KB to 138KB. which makes it look like ass. So here is a full sized version for download
https://mega.co.nz/#!2AEA2LZR!NxoI93UJi ... M1vnC1afKo

Each door leads to the matching numbered door.
The two wall seals can be activated to reveal a chest with the matching letter at the location indicated.
A = Cloud Helm = Best light armor helm
B = Cloud Armor = Best light armor

Bottom right circle is to level 16. Top left is to Level 18

by **mrttao** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:58 pm

Request, please add an "imported consumables merchant" to the castle which gives you access to all the consumeables you have unlocked. as it is I need to go first to the orc merchant, then goblin, then elf, every single time for the more common stuff, and the other towns for the stuff i use more rarely.

Bug: At the end of the tower of illusion demons, the mistresses each see an illusion. Erika's illusion assumes that I had already taken castle town and that someone had died already

by **Ancalador** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:48 am

I've tried to download the .exe three times now and each time Chrome claims that it is Malware and won't let me use it. Is this a problem on my end or not?

by **mrttao** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:01 am

Ancalador Wrote:I've tried to download the .exe three times now and each time Chrome claims that it is Malware and won't let me use it. Is this a problem on my end or not?

chrome is going to extreme length to baby its users. it blocks it because it COULD be malware. it blocks extensions not on the google store for the same reason.
Downloda using firefox or internet explorer
this is not malware

by **Ancalador** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:44 am

mrttao Wrote:this is not malware

Sorry about that, I wasn't trying to imply that it was. When i asked if the problem was on my side or not I was asking if the most recent upload might have corrupted the file in such a way as to make Chrome think it was malware.

I have subsequently downloaded Conquest on IE and am enjoying it so far.

by **Tsundere** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:20 am

You can also go to the Download tab and click "I still want to get that file" or wathever it says in english (yeah, english is not my native language), wich is just below the blocked file in the download list.

by **mrttao** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:45 pm

Ancalador Wrote:Sorry about that, I wasn't trying to imply that it was

Oh, I didn't think you were implying that it was. I was just reassuring you that it isn't despite chrome falsely stating it is

by **Commodus** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:07 am

Okay, let's see if I can use criticism constructively.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Better? Worse? Two steps forward, one step back? Vice versa? Does it address any issues you had? Does it create new issues? Does it make you feel more comfortable with the possibility of me creating the artwork for this game or less so? Any feedback at all would be appreciated.

mrttao:

Great job on the map! I made myself one in paint, but it was a mess of crisscrossing lines. What a wonderful way to present the information clearly and succinctly.

by **mrttao** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:56 pm

Commodus Wrote:Okay, let's see if I can use criticism constructively.

Spoiler (click to show/hide):

Better? Worse? Two steps forward, one step back? Vice versa? Does it address any issues you had? Does it create new issues? Does it make you feel more comfortable with the possibility of me creating the artwork for this game or less so? Any feedback at all would be appreciated.

Can't tell without a side by side comparison. Luckily it isn't hard to make one.
The hands (of the front nun in particular) look better in the new one, I think its because of an improved model but it might be due to the lightening effects on the previous image being so dark looking rather off (too skeletal, and the colors seemed not quite right for flesh).
Preveious facial expressions were terror and revolution. Now its apathy, surprise (maybe slight fear?), and curiosity (potentially lewd curiosity) from back to front. I much prefer the new facial expressions but that is just my personal taste.
In terms of light, the newer image looks a lot more... real. the older one evokes diablo 1 at me, its unreal and in a very dark gothic manner.
Both images seem to have a film grain filter, which I am not a fan of.

Commodus Wrote:mrttao:

Great job on the map! I made myself one in paint, but it was a mess of crisscrossing lines. What a wonderful way to present the information clearly and succinctly.

its basically a bunch of screenshots assembled together like a puzzle until I got a whole. over time I naturally learned better technique to make it go faster and get better quality (for example, getting rid of the main character is is simple as making sure he stands in an overlapped spot, then match the two parts together (each with their own overlord, then create a layer copy of the bottom layer over the area occupied by the overmind in the top layter and place it on top and then merge the 3 layers (much better than clone stamp, ugh).

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